D & M
Laurel, MD
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vladen wrote:Hers a link to that woody gasoline article ,,Im confident yall can shoot some holes in that too.
New Fuel scam
Cool! Now all of those people that got canned when the solar cell place went broke can get a new job and have a secure future in a new green energy technology. 
Dave
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coolbreeze01
Redding, Ca
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Joined: 08/24/2006
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Chris Bryant wrote:coolbreeze01 wrote:You can see the difference between natural gas and LPG most easily when you buy a gas stove. Normally, you are supplied with two sets of jets, one set for natural gas and one set for LPG. You install one jet in each burner. The jet is simply a little screw-in cap with a hole drilled into it. The difference is that the hole in the jet for natural gas is bigger -- about twice as big -- as the hole in the jet for LPG.
The reason for this difference is because LPG contains much more energy than natural gas.
Sorry, but this is really not true (the much more). The huge difference in orifice size and cubic foot per btu is due to the ~3" wc working pressure of natural gas vs the 11" wc working pressure of LPG. If you measure them in liquid form by the gallon, the difference is in the 10% range. ~84,000 btu/gallon for LNG vs ~92,000 btu/gallon of LPG.
2500 vs 1000 BTU's is what % ?
Propane provides more energy per unit volume than natural gas. Heat is measured in BTUs. Propane provides about 2500 BTUs for the same volume of natural gas that only gives 1000 BTUs. However, natural gas can be less expensive at up to one-sixth the cost of propane, depending on where you live. Utilities in colder climates might supply natural gas for less money, especially during winter months. Some rural areas don't have access to a utility company that provides gas service.
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Searching_Ut
Utah
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Joined: 05/09/2011
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One of the Air Force bases I worked on had a fleet of CNG vehicles, and a filling station for them. The 4 door dodge pickup I drove had two great big cylinders for gas in the bed making it of little if any use for hauling anything but passengers, and it worked good for towing equipment. Even with the two big tanks, you were hitting the filling station at least twice as much as you did with the gas fueled vehicles, and you could feel the difference in power as the cng vehicle had a lot less umph. I would think the range would have been maybe 125 miles max towing a TT on the road.
Northern Utah has quite a few cng filling stations, which have been around for probably 8 to 10 years now, but you rarely see anyone at them.
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ol Bombero-JC
USA
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Joined: 06/24/2004
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antiquedrose wrote:Would you use Natural Gas in your Motorhome or Tow Vehicle?
A barebones network of NG fueling stations is being rolled out as interest in his fuel is picking up. I wonder if RV usage would increase as this cheaper and cleaner burning fuel becomes available.
http://www.gohaynesvilleshale.com/forum/topics/clean-energy-unveils-backbone-network-for-america-s-natural-gas
It's a non-issue.
By the time it becomes an option (*if* it ever does) - everybody on here will be on the wrong side of the grass, LOL!
~
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Homer
Northeast Indiana
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Bombero sort of put the cap sheaf on it.
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belfert
Shoreview, MN, USA
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Joined: 10/06/2004
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The local fairgrounds had a bunch of older parking shuttle vehicles converted to CNG in the late 80s. The power of the vehicles decreased greatly and the vehicles had to be fueled at least twice a day instead of just once a day. Mechanics liked it because it eliminated carb problems.
The conversion was paid for by local gas utilities who put advertising on the vehicles. They supplied a fueling station. Fueling took 10 to 15 minutes per vehicle. The additional fueling stops impacted customers as vehicles were out of service during the day for fueling.
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Chris Bryant
DeLand, Florida, USA
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coolbreeze01 wrote:
2500 vs 1000 BTU's is what % ?
Propane provides more energy per unit volume than natural gas. Heat is measured in BTUs. Propane provides about 2500 BTUs for the same volume of natural gas that only gives 1000 BTUs.
That isn't strictly true, simply because the volume is being measured at the working pressure, which is far different, and both are far, far different than what is used in a motor vehicle. You are not strictly storing cubic feet of LPG or CNG, you are using gallons, the way it is stored. Measured in gallons the difference in energy is 84,000 btu/gallon for CNG and 91,600 btu/gallon for LPG, or under 10%.
-- Chris Bryant
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coolbreeze01
Redding, Ca
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Joined: 08/24/2006
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And even more numbers 
The exact values will vary depending on the quality of the fuel and in some cases the pressure.
Propane 1 gallon = 91,500 BTU
1 cubic foot = 2,500 BTU
1 pound = 21,500 BTU
4.24 lbs = 1 gallon
36.39 cubic feet = 1 gallon
Natural Gas 1 cubic foot = 1,050 BTU
Gasoline 1 pound = 19,000 BTU
1 gallon = 125,000 BTU
1 gallon = 6.1 lbs
Oils 1 gallon kerosene = 135,000 BTU
1 gallon #2 oil = 138,500 BTU
1 gallon diesel = 139,200 BTU
1 gallon #6 oil = 153,200 BTU
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PHE
USA
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Joined: 12/18/2004
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kemo 1 wrote:phe, I have to correct you. Natural gas is a compressed gas not a liquid. I ran a truck and a car on cng in the 1990's. We rented a VRA (vehicle refueling apparatus) from the gas company. The rent was $45 a month, it would take overnight to fill each vehicle.
Cng is a safer fuel to use then lpg. With lpg you are not legally supposed to use underground parking because lpg is heavier then air and if there is a leak it will puddle, cng on the other hand is lighter then air and will dissipate in the air.
The reason for RV's being switched to cng or lpg was most likely because of a tax rebate
Ken
Yes you are correct - and I know that we were using CNG not LNG
but my tongue got in front on my eye teeth so I could not see what I was saying (or typing)
Thanks for the heads up
phe
* This post was
edited 02/01/12 06:46pm by PHE *
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antiquedrose
Texas
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Joined: 01/17/2008
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Excellent article on Natural Gas Conversion potential
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