lbrjet
Liberty, IN
Senior Member
Joined: 09/20/2010
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
 Offline
|
Lantley wrote:lbrjet wrote:TMMull wrote:lbrjet wrote:
Ford doesn't help any with the fictitious 11,200lb tow rating.
It's not "fictitious", it's FORD !!!!!!!! Given the way the truck market works, in a few years GM and Chrysler will improve their trucks so they can do the same!!!!
Then why don't you run out and buy one and get an 11K fiver to pull?
Its not fictitious. It is just one parameter. There are a lot more things out there to tow other than just RV trailers.
To match a combo you need to examine all the parameters and not just the tow rating.
What often happens is that one sees the highly advertised tow rating and assumes everything else is fine. They are often unaware of the other parameters.
The unscrupulousness starts when the dealer fails to mention the other parameters. In the end the dealers are often irresponsible for what they don't say. They fail to advise the consumers to do their homework. Instead they hand them a pen and point to the dotted line, without really analyzing or verifying the parameters of the proposed combo.
Yes it is ultimately the buyers responsibility to do their own research however the dealer has an obligation to protect the consumer as well.
Maybe I should have said fictitious for a travel trailer. If this rating was for a TT the owners manual would not have frontal area limitations.
Sure, take a bone stock truck, a 150lb driver, 0 extra lbs in the truck and you could haul a load of bricks as long as the tongue weight doesn't exceed 10%.
Maybe a better term would be unrealistic.
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equalizer E4 1200/12000
|
Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
Senior Member
Joined: 08/23/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
lbrjet wrote:Lantley wrote:lbrjet wrote:TMMull wrote:lbrjet wrote:
Ford doesn't help any with the fictitious 11,200lb tow rating.
It's not "fictitious", it's FORD !!!!!!!! Given the way the truck market works, in a few years GM and Chrysler will improve their trucks so they can do the same!!!!
Then why don't you run out and buy one and get an 11K fiver to pull?
Its not fictitious. It is just one parameter. There are a lot more things out there to tow other than just RV trailers.
To match a combo you need to examine all the parameters and not just the tow rating.
What often happens is that one sees the highly advertised tow rating and assumes everything else is fine. They are often unaware of the other parameters.
The unscrupulousness starts when the dealer fails to mention the other parameters. In the end the dealers are often irresponsible for what they don't say. They fail to advise the consumers to do their homework. Instead they hand them a pen and point to the dotted line, without really analyzing or verifying the parameters of the proposed combo.
Yes it is ultimately the buyers responsibility to do their own research however the dealer has an obligation to protect the consumer as well.
Maybe I should have said fictitious for a travel trailer. If this rating was for a TT the owners manual would not have frontal area limitations.
Sure, take a bone stock truck, a 150lb driver, 0 extra lbs in the truck and you could haul a load of bricks as long as the tongue weight doesn't exceed 10%.
Maybe a better term would be unrealistic.
I agree that those large max tow ratings can be misleading and are based on ideal conditions. Furthermore they are generally not applicable to RV trailers or those with a large frontal area. But I do imagine there are non RV trailers that will fall into the max. tow specs.
AS RV'ers we need to beware and pay attention to all of the towing parameters. AS stated above knowledge is power. Knowledge is the best way to avoid becoming prey to the deceptive advertising and sales tactics used in the RV world
07 Duramax Crew Cab Dually
2012 Open Range 399BHS
Trailersaver BD3,Blue Ox Bedsaver
air bags w/compressor
Prodigy,Splendide W/D,TomTom
Arvika pin box bike rack
14'Porta Bote w/9.9 Johnson outboard
5500 Onan Propane genset,Vu Cube 2000
Retrax tonneau cover
|
Howaboutnow
AZ
Senior Member
Joined: 04/02/2011
View Profile
|
RandACampin wrote:Atlee wrote:I was at the Richmond (VA) RV show last night. One vendor had a 1/2 ton towable sign on nearly every TT and at least one 5'ver. Up to an included a TT that had a dry weight of 8,200 pounds.
Technically, the 8282# was within the 9300# that Ford says my F150 can tow. However, a tongue weight (15%) alone would use up nearly all of my cargo weight capacity. And this is before I substract for my weight and that of my DW, plus the weight of the hitch itself and the fiberglass bed cover that I installed after purchase of the truck.
That is an example of the type of dealer that would sell to the unsuspecting buyer, a TT that would overwhelm the TV the buyer had. And not think twice about it.
It's YOU the buyers responsibility to ensure your truck and trailer is a good safe set up. Take some responsibilty for your actons. There is NOTHING unscrupulous going on.
It is also the dealers responsibility to be honest. It is the sellers AND the buyers responsibility to ensure a safe setup. The dealer and the dealer personal, if reputable, should be more informed than the buyer. That is their business. If not properly honest, informed or trained..... they should be allowed to go out of business.
|
Ole Man Dan
Gadsden, Alabama
Senior Member
Joined: 03/26/2010
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
Artemus Gordon wrote:If I am getting what you guys are saying, " I can't trust the salesman!? But I thought he was my friend...
In case anyone missed it I think Artemus was expressing sarcasm...
I'll bet the dealer told him that... and me... and everyone else who came thru the showroom...
I know that guy... He's in Alabama, New York, Texas, California, and even Iowa... Come to think of it, he's just about everywhere.
(His job's to sell, yours is to sift thru the BS he shovels at you)
I think the car salesman has a brother who sales trailers... You know him, he's the one who sez you can tow that 30 footer with a VW... 
* This post was
edited 02/12/12 09:12pm by Ole Man Dan *
|
E&J push'n wind
San Diego CA, The best climate on earth!
Senior Member
Joined: 12/21/2009
View Profile
Offline
|
Ole Man Dan wrote:I think the car salesman has a brother who sales trailers... You know him, he's the one who sez you can tow that 30 footer with a VW...
It's been done believe it or not, O.K. it was not actually 30+ feet but more like 25 IIRC. My dad tells me of an account of when somebody did it on a bet years ago and it was published in TL magazine. They towed a TT I think to Alaska with a VW thing, y'all remember those from back in the 70's. I wish I could remember the story in more detail, maybe somebody on here can come up with it if they remember what I'm talk'n about. Either AK or around the country, man I wish I could remember!
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know much, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon
|
|
|
JIMNLIN
out here
Senior Member
Joined: 09/14/2003
View Profile
|
Atlee wrote:I was at the Richmond (VA) RV show last night. One vendor had a 1/2 ton towable sign on nearly every TT and at least one 5'ver. Up to an included a TT that had a dry weight of 8,200 pounds.
Technically, the 8282# was within the 9300# that Ford says my F150 can tow. However, a tongue weight (15%) alone would use up nearly all of my cargo weight capacity. And this is before I substract for my weight and that of my DW, plus the weight of the hitch itself and the fiberglass bed cover that I installed after purchase of the truck.
That is an example of the type of dealer that would sell to the unsuspecting buyer, a TT that would overwhelm the TV the buyer had. And not think twice about it.
As you see from others input your F150 isn't like all half ton trucks and is a unfair attack on the dealer. Your std duty 1/2 ton trucks may have a 3800 FAWR/3800-4000 RAWR with a 6k-7k GVWR/P rated tires and wheels. We have other 1/2 ton trucks out here with much more capability than your F150.
The F150 HD in certain truck configurations has had payloads up to 3050 lbs with tow rating over 11000 lbs. With a 8200 GVWR/4800 RAWR/load range E tires and HD wheels and bigger frame/heavier suspension/brakes it isn't like the std duty F150.
Same with GM that marketed a half ton 8600 GVWR with a 4500 FAWR/6000 RAWR/load range E tires/suspension/6.0 engine/4.10 gears/etc. Payloads over 3100 lbs. This truck was previously marketed as the 2500 LD.
Same with the 1500 Dodge Mega cab truck. It came with a 8510 GVWR/5200 FAWR/6010 RAWR/load range E tires and wheels/5.7 Hemi.
Its a truck owners responsiblity (and only the operator) to educate himself on his tow vehicles max capacities before purchasing a trailer.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 gvwr two slides
|
Atlee
Mechanicsville, VA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/28/2002
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
If I had it to do over, I would certainly change the subject line. It would suit me fine if the moderator would just close this thread.
Obviously, the subject line has lead to both bashing of me and of most, if not all, dealers.
But I know that like every other business out there, most do their job honestly, while just like every other business there are some who are down right less than honest.
In fact, while sitting in another trailer at the RV show, I overheard a salesman outside telling some lookers that their proposed TV was not large enough to tow the Micro-Lites he was selling.
Also, just for the record, I have been educating myself. That's one reason I come to the TT & Towing boards. To educate and get new ideas.
Also for the record, I have a 2005 F150 XLT Supercab 4X4 with 6.5' box, and 144.5" wheel base. I also have the Tow package offered by Ford in 2005, which includes a hitch, 9 channel external auto transmissin cooler, and upgraded radiator.
It also has a 3.73 rear end. It came with a GCWR of 15,000#, max tow GVWR of 9,300# (reduced because of the 4x4), GVWR of 7,200#, FGAWR of 3,750#, RGAWR of 3,850#. From the yellow sticker inside the front door, it has a payload capacity of 1,496#.
The hitch is rated at 5,000#, 500# tongue without WD hitch, and 9,300#, 930# tongue with WD hitch.
By the way, another salesman noticed I was adding up the dry weight and the max NCC as posted on the yellow sticker on the door of a trailer. He asked what I was doing. After explaining, he repeatedly told me I should not be concerned with the GVWR of the trailer. The only important number was the dry weight. He repeated this several times. I wasn't really interested in his trailer, but even if I were, I would not have bought from this salesman.
Erroll, Mary, Duffy the Badger Dog plus "Ollie"
2009 HiLo Towlite 2209T
2005 F150 Supercab 4x4, w/ 5.4L
1996 RoadTrek 210 Popular, on 1995 Chevy Chassis
|
JoyceandSteve
Houston, Texas
Senior Member
Joined: 05/24/2011
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
padave wrote:Technically they are telling the truth. You can buy a 2012 Supercrew F150 4x4 with the heavy duty payload and max tow package that is rated to tow 11,100 pounds and has a payload of 2310. The 4x2 is rated for 200 pounds more. That truck can tow the trailers and 5th wheel listed.
I asked a salesman at the Houston RV show about the '1/2 ton towable signs' and he actually told the truth. Stated to me that the TT the sign was on was towable by a Ford F-150 Ecoboost with max trailer towing package. May be a bit misleading, but at least he was honest with me? Buyer beware and do your homework.
Steve & Joyce
2011 Chevrolet 2500 Z71 4X4 6.0L
2011 Keystone Passport 2850RL
1996 Celebrity 200 Boat
2000 Yamaha 1200 LTD Waverunner
2012 Ford Mustang GT (Mama's ride)
Vítejte na víkend doma a Steve Joyce
|
md2lgyk
WV
Senior Member
Joined: 07/11/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
WyoTraveler wrote:I didn't even know they built a 1/2 ton crew cab. I suppose this big new trend is part of EPA and fuel savings.
Not hardly a new trend. My 2005 Sierra is a crew cab.
"The great object is, that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." - Patrick Henry
|
Camper JamesB
Wichita
Senior Member
Joined: 07/27/2011
View Profile
Offline
|
I am willing to to admit a mistake I made. When i was looking at a new TT several years ago, i set out looking for one that was under 8500 lbs, that was my tow rating. So I chose one that was around 6500lbs empty, 2000 lbs under my limit, plenty safe right? Well no it wasnt, it weighed 8000 lbs on the scale and was a nightmare to tow with a 1/2 ton. The dealership actually told me I might not have enough truck, but i was drinking some magic kool-aid and thought I would be fine with a 8500 lb tow rating. Honestly, it did pull it for a year, I just hated going anywhere. At the beginning of the next season I bought a 3/4 dmax long bed cc. It was was a night and day difference in towing pleasure. I loved the power, but the long wheel base and huge brakes were what really made the difference.
Back to my point, I told the dealer what I was going to be towing with and chose to dismiss his caution. It was my fault, even though I thought I did the research to justify my decision.
|
|
|
|
