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RE: Has anyone used - Electric Tow Hitch
..Powerhouse Coach has a (vaguely) similar solution to this on their coaches, their Ultimate Tow Vehicle system. Really cool, but comes at a VERY high price, haha! Coach has a huge bar that extends out from back, slides under front wheel of towed vehicle, and picks it up. Nothing to add to the towed vehicle at all (except maybe wiring for lights). No worries about tongue weight, as their coaches are sooo massive (built on Volvo class 8 truck chassis!), half the weight of the towed vehicle resting on the back is not a problem.
How about that, Mowermech? Beats having to fool with a flatbed trailer, dolly, or 4 down setup, huh?! :)
(..Of course, those coaches are so obscenely expensive and huge, most of us could not afford such, nor would want something so huge it wouldn't fit in many campsites..)
Will
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willald
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05/08/12 12:42pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Has anyone used - Electric Tow Hitch
Wow, I like it, if it would work. :)
Love the idea - Lifting the front wheels of the toad off the ground and towing it like a tow truck would solve a LOT of issues - backing up is not a problem, no worries about drivetrain, better tracking/maneuvering, etc.
And, the price is very reasonable - not much more than a dolly would cost, and probably cheaper than 4 down towing in many cases.
I would not be worried about the front wheels occasionally contacting the pavement and spinning some. Just leave tranny in neutral, I think a few turns of the front wheels every now and then when going over a bump is not going to hurt anything.
The big concern I have, and my major doubt, is with the obscene amount of tongue weight this thing is going to put on the Motorhome!
They claim in their FAQs that for a 2,850 lb vehicle, its only 450 lbs of tongue weight, and that they lighten the tongue weight by lengthening the tow bar/'stinger' they use. I actually just sent them an email asking that very question. How much tongue weight is a 4,000lb or more SUV or minivan going to put on the back of the MH??
Hmmmm, what about braking? Would you even need/want toad braking with a setup like this? Only the rear wheels would be on the pavement. I guess you'd definitely want a breakaway setup of some kind, at the very least..
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willald
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05/08/12 07:04am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: towing Buick Enclave with Class A Ford V-10?
Tongue weight is not an issue when towing four wheels down or with a dolly - where the tongue weight is near enough to zero that it doesn't matter. That's what most people do.
Right. However, most people that tow 4 down or on a dolly, are not going to need anything more than the 5k limitation, so its a moot point in that case.
The case I'm talking about, is when someone is pulling a race or show car, a 'toad', or other 'toys' on a flatbed or enclosed trailer. In that case, tongue weight could very well be an issue.
For heavy trailers, you will need to add a weight distribution hitch to lower tongue weight as required.
Is the use of weight distribution hitches allowed/advisable on a MH? I understand how WD hitches work, as I used such for many years when we owned a TT. However, I did not think MHs with their long frame extensions and such were designed to handle the stress of a weight distribution hitch? Are they?
If not, now we're also talking about modifying the hitch receiver and MH chassis to handle a weight distribution hitch when it was not originally designed for such. Yikes! This is starting to sound like something thats going to cost a lot more than just a few hundred.
Will
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willald
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05/07/12 09:33am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: towing Buick Enclave with Class A Ford V-10?
....Here's the good news: A reputable towing shop can assess your frame and hitch, and upgrade your MH to maximum theoretical towing capacity for a few hundred dollars. Definitely worth looking into if you want to save $100K or so.
Right, thats what I mentioned previously. The question I (and I think a few others) have that we can't seem to get an answer on, is the specifics around this.
What exactly have folks had done to their frame and hitch to allow this, and what did it cost? Where can one get this work done? Most places I've talked to refuse to touch such a thing with a 10' pole, for liability reasons.
Also, one big concern you didn't mention, that has to be addressed: the weight on the rear axle. When you put tongue weight on a vehicle with a lot of rear overhang and don't use a weight distributing hitch (which I don't think you could use on a MH), the weight this puts on the rear axle is considerable, is actually more than the tongue weight. This can overload the rear axle of a MH very easily. If you're going to exceed that 5k limitation and potentially put more than 500 lbs of tongue weight on, you need to pay VERY close attention to the weight this puts on the rear axle. You may need to do some upgrades on the suspension or tires to handle the extra load. That, or lighten the load on the back of the MH some other way to compensate for this (maybe always travel with tanks empty when towing heavy?)
It does seem that several people are towing trailers larger than 5k with these gasser MHs, so I'm curious to see how folks are addressing this issue..
Will
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willald
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05/07/12 06:55am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Does such a thing as a decent gasser exist?
The Ford V10's built 2006 and later,are in a class by themselves. Before 2006 most gassers were not that great. With 362 HP and a torque curve that produces power over a wide RPM range,there is no need to consider a diesel.
I agree, I think the new 3 valve-per-cylinder heads and updated intake manifold Ford gave the V10s in 2006 changed the game quite a bit.
As one that towed a large TT with the older V10 in an Excursion and now have driven a 36' MH towing a 4400 lb minivan toad behind it with the new V10...I'm here to tell you the new V10 is considerably more powerful. Will pretty much go as fast as I want to, and doesnt seem to hardly notice much whether or not we're towing the van behind us.
Hmmm...What if they were to come out with a rear engine pusher V10 gas model, with air suspension, etc. that the big DPs have? :)
Nah, I still wouldn't want it, 'cause I don't like having the engine in the back. Makes maintenance too much of a PITA, and makes it almost impossible to have a window on your back wall in the bedroom. That, and they frequently put the door at the very front, in front of passenger seat on pusher models. I HATE that arrangement, makes it feel like you're driving a big greyhound or school bus, haha!
Will
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willald
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05/05/12 01:15pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Does such a thing as a decent gasser exist?
You know, I read many of the same things. If you listen to some on this forum, they'll have you convinced that unless you can spend $250k on a huge high end DP, you might as well give up RVing, LOL. :)
Funny, though, after our first trip with our new Georgetown gasser motorhome (see signature) a few weeks ago, I found myself wondering just what it was that was soooo bad about gassers. Ours was/is an absolute pleasure to drive. We experienced NONE of the bad things I read about on here with gassers (bad handling, lack of power, etc). The V10 in ours has plenty of power. Feels noticeably more powerful than the V10 Excursion we used to have did when it was towing our 34' TT. The ride is wonderful, much, much nicer than anything I've ever driven before. I absolutely love driving it. :)
I did test drive a DP, and it is true that the air ride and rear engine makes for a more comfortable, quiet ride. No denying that. However, I'm also here to tell you the difference is not as major as some will suggest. And for us at least, the difference is not at all worth the HUUUUUGE price difference you pay to get into a DP.
I think they have come a long way in improving these things over the years, to the point that many of the things you hear people complaining about, simply are not an issue on newer motorhomes, whether gasser or diesel.
Go test drive a few MHs in your price range, whether gasser or diesel. I think you'll find like I did, that the difference really is not quite so 'night and day' as some suggest. If you like one, and the floorplan and everything fits with you, make your best deal on it, do the deal and don't look back.
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willald
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05/04/12 08:52pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: roadmaster invisi brake v even brake system.
X2 on the ReadyBrute. I just ordered mine, and really, really like the idea of having a simple, 'it just works' type braking system with no electronics involved in it. Mowermech convinced me on that one, hahaha. :)
Way I see it, Motorhomes already have a zillion different electrical systems/appliances you have to worry about. I'd just assume have one less to worry about. No electronics to quit or go haywire on you, no battery drain on the toad, no air lines or pumps, none of that with the ReadyBrute. Just a simple cable going from tow bar to brake pedal. Thats all. And, costs a LOT less than most other systems, when you consider that it comes with the tow bar and everything.
Winnebago doesn't recommend surge brakes 'cause of extra stress on hitch components? Not sure I understand that one. How does surge brakes put any more stress on hitch components than any other system would? Makes me wonder if Winnebago has some 'sweetheart' deal with Blue Ox or Roadmaster, to help them sell their (more expensive) systems like Brake Buddy, Invisibrake, Patriot, etc. That, or perhaps they are still 'living in the past', from 40 years ago when surge systems maybe didn't work as good as they do now.
..As one thats towed a variety of trailers over the last 10-15 years with several different tow vehicles, I have found that surge brakes work very well when done right. Especially when the tow vehicle is significantly larger/heavier than whats being towed, as would be the case with a MH towing a car.
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willald
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05/03/12 12:55pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: towing Buick Enclave with Class A Ford V-10?
Now, one difference is that you have a MH on the 22k chassis, mine is on the 20.5k chassis. Your MH is a bit heavier and a little longer. I'm not sure how big a difference that may make one way or the other.
There is a difference: your smaller coach has a higher towing capacity. Both can tow a combined maximum of 26,000 lbs. Your coach is lighter, so you can tow more. Similarly, a 16K F-53 can tow still more with a properly reinforced chassis and hitch.
Where can one find out, what to do for chassis and hitch reinforcement?
I have a 16K F-53, but my tow rating is only 3500 lbs! I would like tom tow my Jeep GC.
I've asked that same question, I want to know whats involved with that as well.
I know of two individuals on here that have done it - 'toolman' and 'dalehelman'. I asked them recently, in THIS thread for more specifics around what they had done, but have not got an answer yet.
I'm curious to know this, also, as I've thought a few times about towing our car on a flatbed trailer. As noted above, our MH has plenty of GCWR to handle 6000, possibly even 7,000 lbs total of trailer. Problem is the tongue weight, as well as the hitch receiver limitation.
The other concern is with overloading the rear axle, since tongue weight can put a LOT of extra weight on the rear wheels of a vehicle like a MH that has a long rear overhang.
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willald
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05/03/12 12:30pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Blue Ox base plates
Does anyone know of any deals on Blue Ox base plates? I am looking for a new BX-1128 for a 2012 Grand Cherokee Overland.
The best I can do is $349 including shipping.
Thats probably the best you're going to get. I got exact same deal on the blue ox plates I just ordered the other day.
I'm guessing, you saw that deal ($349 and free shipping) at hitchsource.com, right? Thats who I just ordered mine from.
RV Dealer wanted $440 for the plates, seen other places that wanted as much as $480. That being the case, $349 with free shipping is not bad at all, IMO.
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willald
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05/02/12 06:46am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Towed vehicle safety cables vs chains question
I like Chains! Cables can rot from the inside and never show any problem, they seem to like salt!
..Which is one of the reasons we almost never travel up north.
All the snow you get means they have to put tons of salt on the roads, causing all that corrosion on various parts of vehicles. :)
Keep your vehicles down here in the South, and you eliminate a good bit of the rust and corrosion issues. ;)
Will
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willald
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05/02/12 06:38am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Towed vehicle safety cables vs chains question
Don't think you want to go there. Putting that much faith in the baseplate manufacturer can have catastrophic results. Found the thread from 2007. Here it is:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20128352/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1
Shortly after that one, there was 3 more just on RVnet.
I had to look through that entire thread to figure that one out. The baseplate didn't fail but part of the actual vehicle failed. Looks like a design flaw in the Ford Explorer Scout the way they have it set to tow. I doubt Ford authorizes it to be towed that way. My Jeep has tow hooks and the manual specifically states that the tow hooks are not strong enough for recreational towing. The problem is with Blue Ox choosing to use the tow hooks for something other than what they were designed for.
..I read through all of that thread, and some others related to that incident. I would have to agree, Blue Ox should never have relied on those tow hooks alone for holding the base plate on. The hooks would probably be OK for safety/emergency cables or chains, but not for everyday towing use. 'Twas a recipe for disaster, I'm glad they got that corrected quickly.
I'm amazed this thread has created 3 pages of discussion. Hahah, its funny how you start a thread one day to ask one question, you may get 1 or 2 responses. Next day, ask another question, and there's 3 pages of discussion. Guess some subjects command more attention than others. :)
Anyway, thanks for all the responses, I've definitely learned quite a bit from this. Think I'll probably stick with the safety cables NSA provides with our tow bar. I just may upgrade the hooks on the ends, though, not sure 'bout that yet.
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willald
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05/02/12 06:32am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Towed vehicle safety cables vs chains question
"Is there any reason I should NOT use chains like this instead of the cables? Am I (again) being too paranoid? Has anyone else scrapped the cables in favor of real chains for their 4 down towing setup? What are those cables actually rated for?
Seems like one good 'pull' from the towed vehicle in the event of a separation would snap those cables in two very easily.. "
Yes, there IS a reason not to use chains; the coiled cables allow the toad, if separated, to drop back further from the coach. This allows plenty of room for the breakaway cable to pull out of the switch and apply the toad brakes. With chains you have to get the breakaway cable exactly right in order for it to work. Even then, the closeness of the toad makes the chances of damaging the rear of the coach greater.
The cables have been tested many times and will not snap having a working load of 10,000 lb + rating X2 cables. Breaking strength is far greater than that. A separation or failure of the hitch results in the toad coasting back as it is no longer being pulled along. When the brakes are activated by the breakaway system the tension increases but not to anywhere near the limit.
Excellent point, Rich, thank you for bringing that up.
I think I'll stick to what I said before - use the cables, but use clevis hooks on the ends of them instead of the S hooks.
..And depending on how the base plate attaches to the van, I may connect the cables to front tow hooks instead of the base plate..
Will
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willald
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05/01/12 11:50am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Ordering a New Motorhome, What To Do With The Trade-in
Why don't you get two prices on the new motorhome, one with trading yours in and the other an outright purchase without a trade that way you'll know exactly what they are giving you for a trade and then try to sell yours for the 6 months you are not using it asking somewhat more than they are giving you to cover difference in sales tax and a little profit for your time. There are plenty of places to list yours for sale including e-bay which is where I sold mine.
I agree 100%, thats exactly what I would do.
This gives you 6 months (plenty of time) to try and sell yours yourself for more than he's offering for it.
If you manage to do so, great, you're that much $$ ahead in the game. If not, after 6 months when he has the new unit in and ready for you, go ahead and let him have yours on tradein then.
However, you would have to expect that any tradein value he gives you NOW, it will probably be somewhat less 6 months from now. If dealer is willing to lock in a tradein amount now that will be good in 6 months, great, make sure you get that in writing! However, I wouldnt expect that. And if he does do that, it may well be a 'low-ball' tradein offer.
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willald
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05/01/12 11:40am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Towed vehicle safety cables vs chains question
I have these Blue Ox cables
http://www.aemfg.com/Accessories/bx88197.jpg
They are rated at 10,000 lbs. Way over kill for my little 2600 lb Focus. The base plate has a similiar cable which is a safety cable for the baseplate to the toad. Don't think it is going anywhere while it is being towed down the highway.
Blue Ox also makes a lighter weight 5000 lb cable which would have been more appropriate for my car, but the heavier one came with the Blue Ox Aventa™ LX which is also rated at 10,000 lbs, and that I what I brought to tow my car. That way I can move up to a heavier toad if ever needed.
..I like those better, just for the hooks on the ends they use (as noted in last post, I've always used hooks like that).
Latch on the hooks makes sure it will never slip off. Nor will they 'straighten out', either.
I may just have to use the cables ReadyBrute comes with, but ditch the S hooks on the ends in favor of clevis hooks.
Will
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willald
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05/01/12 08:34am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Towed vehicle safety cables vs chains question
Use whatever makes you feel the most secure. The safety cables supplied with my ReadyBrute towbar/brake system are rated in excess of the 8,000 lb capacity of the tow bar.
Thats what I went with, too, the ReadyBrute towbar/brake system. Good to hear that the cables that come with it are rated for more than 8,000 lbs.
What about the S hooks at the ends, though? Thats one of the parts I don't trust. I've heard of those things 'straightening out' in a separation incident, letting the towed vehicle loose. 'Tis the reason I use clevis hooks with a latch like THIS on my safety chains. I suppose I could attach clevis hooks to the ends of those cables and use them.
I seriously doubt my 3200 lb toad is likely to snap them. And yes, they do attach to my Blue Ox base plate, but in turn, the base plate also has safety cables attached to the toad frame, so even if the bolts should let go, it's not going to completely separate.
Ah, good to know. Will have to take a closer look at how the base plate attaches.
Will
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willald
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05/01/12 07:53am |
Class A Motorhomes
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Towed vehicle safety cables vs chains question
We are in the process of setting up our minivan to tow 4 down behind our new MH. Ordered the parts yesterday, supposed to get here by early next week.
Anyway, I've been thinking about the safety cables that are included in the deal, and that I see so many using when towing 4 down - The thin cables most people use instead of chains.
I have always been very 'paranoid' when it comes to safety chains. Every RV trailer I owned as well as the dolly we are presently using, one of the first upgrades I've always done is to ditch the safety chains it comes with, and replace them all with much more stout chains and clevis hooks with safety latches. I've always wanted to make it #% near impossible for the towed vehicle (or trailer) to ever get loose.
That being the case, I have very little faith in the thin, curled up safety cables I see in use with 4 down towing setups. Especially when I see that many just connect to the base plate on the towed vehicle. If base plate lets go, safety cables become worthless.
Anyway, I'm seriously thinking about keeping the heavy duty chains I presently use to hold our van onto the dolly, and attach those between the MH and the front tow hooks on our van when we flat tow it (and not using the coiled up safety cables that come with the tow bar).
Is there any reason I should NOT use chains like this instead of the cables? Am I (again) being too paranoid? Has anyone else scrapped the cables in favor of real chains for their 4 down towing setup? What are those cables actually rated for?
Seems like one good 'pull' from the towed vehicle in the event of a separation would snap those cables in two very easily..
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willald
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05/01/12 06:56am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: What fuel mileage should I expect? Is this a good set up?
Have a certified welding shop reinforce your frame and hitch to 10,000lb. Be sure to keep the paper work for the job. It cost me around $800 six years ago.
Exactly what I did, threw in an equaizer hitch, and I converted the trailer brakes to discs on both axles. It stops on a dime and gives back a nickel in change.
Toolman and/or dalehelman: Can either of you elaborate some, on what all was done to your MH chassis to allow this? I researched this once, was not able to find where anyone even makes a receiver for the F53 with more than 5k rating. Did they custom fabricate one, or beef up the existing one? Did they do anything to beef up the rest of the chassis? Who did the work for you?
Did you weigh and verify that you weren't overloading the rear axle with the (loaded) trailer hitched up, and MH fully loaded? Did you have to do any suspension upgrades to address that?
..Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Will
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willald
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04/30/12 03:10pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: What fuel mileage should I expect? Is this a good set up?
I don't understand why someone would go out and buy something new that you know you will overload. If it were me and I just had to have this MH, I would ask the dealer to upgrade the hitch to a 7500 lb one and make sure you get the documentation DANGLE THE CARROTT.
Nice thought, but I bet the dealer will say no way, and refuse to do this. Way, way, WAY too much liability there. IIRC from when I researched this, there is not even a hitch receiver made to fit the newer F53 chassis with any more than the 5k rating. You'd be looking at having some custom fabrication/welding in order to do this, as some other posters had done.
I also just bought a 2012 Georgetown MH with bunks (see signature). Excellent choice, BTW, you will love it. I also at one point was considering towing our vehicle on a trailer behind it. I can definitely understand the reasons you'd want to go that route, I did, too! However, even for as strong as the F53 chassis is, I have to agree with what others have said - towing 6500 lbs behind a 22k V10 MH chassis is just NOT a good idea. Either get a dolly, or set your vehicle up for 4 down towing. That, or if you must use the trailer, step up to a DP coach thats rated to handle that much weight.
Why? As some have alluded to, beefing up the 5k limited hitch receiver is just the beginning. You ALSO have to make sure any extensions to the frame that Forest River puts on, is up to the task of handling the extra tongue weight you're going to put on it beyond the 500 lbs Ford rated it for. With a 6500 lb trailer, you will have a minimum of 650-700 lbs of tongue weight, probably more like 900.
Here'e the other big one, and the main reason I nixed the trailer idea: Remember, tongue weight on the end of a long overhang like a MH has, puts a LOT of extra weight on the rear axle! Unless you are very, very careful with how you load the MH itself, you could easily overload the rear axle and put yourself at greater risk for tire blowouts, handling issues, premature suspension wear, etc. Soooo, if you must do this, plan on possibly doing some (expensive!) suspension (and possibly tire) upgrades as well to address the extra load on the rear axle. That, or plan on traveling light, loading carefully, and several trips to the scales to verify you're not overloading the rear axle.
..Also, there is a good chance you'll be past the 26k GCWR limitation of the MH chassis. While that one probably isn't quite as big a concern, it does mean you are asking the drivetrain to handle more weight than Ford recommended for it. I will agree that the V10 and torqueshift transmission is a great drivetrain, and very powerful. It may well handle that load without a problem, but it may not, either. 26k is a LOT of weight, I'd rather not ask the V10 to handle more than that. Any more than that, and you really should be looking for a diesel.
My vote is, get a dolly, tow the vehicle 4 down, or step up to a DP that is rated for that much weight. The Georgetown bunk models are really cool, you're gonna love it (we love ours!). I'd hate to see you tear one up before its time.
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willald
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04/30/12 03:05pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: towing Buick Enclave with Class A Ford V-10?
We tow a similar amount of weight with a new V10 MH as well (see signature). I will tell you that we have been very impressed with the V10 and 5 speed torqueshift tranny in our MH.
We tow a minivan on a dolly. Once you add the weight of the dolly and van, we're at around 4800 lbs. We've found that the MH does not really feel much different power-wise when towing vs not. We have definitely been pleasantly surprised as far as towing power is concerned. I can pretty much hold whatever speed I want to.
Now, one difference is that you have a MH on the 22k chassis, mine is on the 20.5k chassis. Your MH is a bit heavier and a little longer. I'm not sure how big a difference that may make one way or the other.
Its a good thing you're going to flat tow that Buick, because at 4700 lbs, its too heavy to put on a dolly, as the weight of any dolly plus that Buick is going to put you over the 5k limitation of the MH's receiver.
Anyway, good luck with it. :)
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willald
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04/30/12 10:26am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Hand held electric drill for jacks
When we owned a TT, I used a 19.2V Craftsman drill, it worked great for years and years (never had a problem).
Not sure I agree that more voltage ONLY means longer running time. I have a Makita 9.6V cordless as well, and it would not move/turn the TT's stabilizer jacks at all. Had to step up to the 19.2V Craftsman model when we wanted one that would work the jacks.
One thing that helps a lot, IMO, is if you have a drill that has multiple 'gears', to let you select between low speed and high torque (what you want for this!), or high speed low torque. Our Craftsman has that, and it has obscene torque on the low speed setting.
Will
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willald
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04/29/12 08:32am |
Travel Trailers
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