| |
Subject |
Author |
Date Posted |
Forum
|
 |
RE: RMI-25 AND the Cummins 8.3
Well, the motivation is not really to lower the operating temps. It's the heath of the cooling system as a whole. In my past uses with it you would quite literally find the undesirable gunk floating in your overflow tank after about 20 hours of run time. From there you can either suck it out, or over fill the tank and since the stuff floats, it comes flooding out first. From that point the product begins to act as an inhibitor of rust, a lubricant for moving parts, and a anti-cavitation additive. I want my radiator to stay clean and healthy, as well as the water pump, and thermostat. So I suppose that's really the long and short of it. I'm big of course on the proper anti-freeze, and distilled water but beyond that anything I can do for insurance is worth considering. - Tom
|
TominTampa
|
03/09/10 05:33pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Thermostat repl. in CAT C7?
Per OP's PM, here are how I change coolant. And yes, you can get ELC and thermostats from any Caterpillar dealer. Take in your engine serial number to insure correct thermostats and gasket.
Cooling System 101
I just changed out my coolant to Caterpillar ELC and replaced all water hoses and belts. Thought I would share the experience.
To my knowledge no chassis/coach maker is using ELC—so all are “low silicate coolant for diesels” with included or added SCA. Coolant needs to be changed per manufacturer’s instructions (usually every 3 years). Additionally the SCA, pH and freeze point need to be checked on regular intervals using SCA test strips and SCA added as needed. The test strips are inexpensive and easy to use (we check the SCA concentration in all coaches at Cat RV Club Rallies). When either the time lapses (time starts when coolant installed in cooling system, NOT when purchased) or testing reveals an out-of-line conditions like pH or freeze point, it is time to change it. You can avoid all the testing and SCA adding, and go to 6 year change intervals by going to Caterpillar ELC and get better cooling system protection as well. Whichever coolant you choose, most of the steps are the same. The job is reasonably time consuming TO DO RIGHT, but low-tech.
Turn dash heater to full hot for the rest of the procedure—fan off. With the engine cold or at least cool, drain coolant. On some, there is a drain cock. On others, pull the lower radiator hose. I catch it in 2 Rubbermade 10 gallon storage bin lined with black trash sacks so I do not even get them dirty. At the end of the whole process, use a coffee can and funnel to pour old coolant into new coolant/water containers for recycling. Our city maintenance shop recycles coolant for free.
Refill cooling system with tap water. IMPORTANT: Be sure to remove any air lock from the thermostat housing. Some systems have a hose set up for this—on ours I just loosen the coolant line to the air pump and bleed the air out. Allow engine to warm up (using the cruise control to select idle speed of 1,000-1,100 speeds this up). Run for about 10 minutes at regular temp. If the temp gauge does not rise as normal, you likely have an air block and need to bleed the thermostat housing. Allow engine to cool 20-30 minutes and drain again. Repeat until the color is clear.
At this point, if this is the first coolant change on a 2-3 year old coach and you are not changing coolant brands/types, skip right to “Last rinse”. For older systems or for switching types of coolant, add a Cooling System Cleaner such as Cat Fast Acting Cooling System Cleaner 4C4611. Follow directions. Run, allow engine to cool, drain and again flush until effluent is clear. The flushing is markedly sped up by pulling off the heater hose (usually 5/8 to ¾” lines going to dash heater/motor-aid water heater, etc from the water pump. Put a hose nozzle in the hose and let it run until what comes out is clear. Run the engine to temperature at least once with tap water.
If your hoses are over 3-4 years old, this is a good time to change them as well (before last rinse). Same for thermostat(s).
Last Rinse is with distilled water. At $.62/gal at Walmart, it is silly to skip this step and leave your system full of high-mineral content water (there will be several gallons of residual water that you can not easily remove). Run engine for 10 minutes after getting to operating temperature. Cool and drain. Also drain and flush your coolant overflow container and refill with new coolant/distilled water.
Add the proper amount of Coolant CONCENTRATE (NOT PRE-DILUTE) to make 50% of cooling system capacity. My cooling system is 18 gallons, so I added 9 gallons of Caterpillar ELC CONCENTRATE (119-5150) (plus one for overflow container). Top off with distilled water to achieve your 50/50 mixture.
This is also a good time to clean the OUTSIDE of the radiator/after-cooler whether you have rear or side radiator. On rear radiator, most if the debris will be on the FRONT of the after-cooler (accessed from under the bed). On side radiators, most debris is on the outside of the after-cooler (side of coach). If it is just dirt, a hose and regular nozzle is all you need. If greasy or oily, use Joy liquid (dish washing detergent) in a spray bottle. Be SURE to rinse it off completely. You need to insure that the perimeter is as clean as the center. Ya, I know it is easier to see the center, but the fan blades "sling" the dirt to the perimeter.
Check belts while you are in there.
|
wolfe10
|
03/09/10 03:10pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Simple, cheap, AND effective ram air intake
send a picture to bandersononline@gmail.com
A note to Rickeyrocket I did the identical set up with mine but I left it terminated just over the top of radiator and put a mouse/chipmunk screen in front of it. ( would have to clean out cherry pits and hickory nut reminents every spring)
|
Brian in Michigan
|
03/09/10 08:38am |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: The old girl is back - where to start
I managed to spend some more time on the old girl today and as temperatures are rising here in the desert, I wanted to make sure that the air conditioning was working well. I've replaced every component so far with the exception of the evaporator and so decided that I wanted to make sure that it was ok. I knew that the ac was actually cooling but I couldn't get any cold air out of the vents.
By looking at the AC/Heating/Vent plenum it looked very simple technology and quite easy to get at.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac1.jpg
I first disconnected the water heater pipes and depressurized the AC system so that I could unbolt the AC pipes.
There are 5 bolts around the outside of the plenum, the switch for the ice/frost detector and the vacuum line for the air recirculation function to remove.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac2.jpg
I tried pulling the unit off and then realized that it was also screwed through from the inside which meant removing the screws holding the surround and then pulling the carpet back to reveal two screws.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac3.jpg
Once they were removed, the unit fell forward - it's very simple, the fan in the passenger footwell at the top sucks air through the AC evaporator and the water radiator and that gave me a clue as to where the problem may lie - more of that later.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac4.jpg
All the seals had perished completely which meant that it was leaking air everywhere.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac5.jpg
I used the heat gun to remove the old adhesive from the seals and that revealed the screws that held the back plate on.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac7.jpg
Again, the foam seals inside were a complete mess and had disintegrated so I spent some time cleaning everything up.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac8.jpg
Here are all the constituent parts broken down ready to be cleaned up. I flushed the water radiator and used compressed air to blow out the evaporator and then used simple green to clean the outside of both parts - amazing just how much dirt it removed - I guess 25 years of use creates a ton of dirt.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac9.jpg
Reassembly was the reverse of disassembly but I used some of that aluminum covered foam that is used for duct insulation to create new seals - both inside the plenum and around the outside.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac10.jpg
Here's the reassembled unit ready to be put back in, however ....
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac11.jpg
A quick spray with a semi-gloss black enamel made a big difference to its looks.
I need to head over to Autozone tomorrow and borrow their vacuum pump and gauges to refill the AC to test but although a good clean and a new set of seals should improve matters, I didn't find anything specifically wrong but what I realized was that air is sucked in from outside, through the evaporator and then through the water heater matrix - hmmm, so if any hot water was flowing through the matrix warming it up, then the cold air would get warmed by the matrix.
To test this, I pulled the water heater valve and when I tested it, I found that it's leaking even when fully closed - so that seems to be the main cause of the problem - so I'll pick up a new valve tomorrow and give that a try.
http://www.rvparkfinder.net/1984_monaco_regent/ac12.jpg
|
stevelv
|
03/03/10 10:45pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: tune up
How many miles on the unit? It may be due for a valve lash adjustment. Don't forget to identify all the grease fittings and service them. How about the wheel bearings? If the transmission has not been serviced it will be good to do it now. I replace the brake fluid on mine every couple of years Yours may have air brakes mine are air over hydraulic. Make sure to start the season with a clean radiator. Has the thermostat been replaced? Check all fluids including the Reservoir for you Hyd. Jacks. Look at the air dryer and filter. The Power steering reservoir may also provide hydraulics to your fan if it is a side radiator. There is a filter in the reservoir or in line with the hose. I know a lot more suggestions will be coming. Enjoy your new DP and the coming summer.
|
Dog Trainer
|
02/27/10 01:57pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Turbo dead on 2006 C7 CAT
Brett,
Excellent post.
For those of you wanting more particulars on this situation.
-19,000 miles on coach
-Second owner as of July 2009
-Previous owner, longtime owner of Class A's, owner of construction company with multiple diesel vehicles. Spoke directly with him, he kept meticulous records of oil changes and other maintenance.
-At purchase, coach was "refreshed" by Tom Johnson; all filters, all fluids, changed/checked
-August 4th,2009 current owner brought to CAT for complete "inspection", intercooler and radiator clean,
Fluid re-check and validation, coolant check and validation, Test drive. Asked about "turbo noise", was told it was completely normal.
Passed all areas completely. "you have an excellent coach, sir, in excellent shape, well maintained"
-Though this step may seem unnecessary, I wanted to be sure that the dealer did all that was expected and needed. The several hundred dollars I spent gave me peace of mind.
-Coach brought in for window replacement to selling dealer, asked dealer to review fluids, and another check of major systems. Asked about turbo "whistling noise". Was told some exhaust clamps a little loose, tightened up, reduced whistling. Spent an hour for labor to gain more peace of mind.
-When turbo noise increased,coach brought in for service immediately, driven only to get to facility.
So how do I drive this coach? Always warm it up before moving, in fact, use exact method described by Brett.
I purchased VMSPC and watch all temps, pressures carefully, and even have alarms that go off when pressures, temps and road speeds exceed standard levels.
-I periodically print the screen of VMSPC and review the details later on. Nothing has ever been out of standard.
The coach is never shut down immediately, at rest areas or other, and let it run approximately 5 minutes each time.
I may be new at this, but am not irresponsible.
I have invested many hours on this forum, have researched the right things to do before doing anything,have asked many experienced users for help and guidance, and am ultra-careful in what I do to and with the coach. The several hours a day spent on this and other forums have provided me with much information and again I thank those who give freely of their time.
This problem is not self inflicted, is not the result of abuse, and it's difficult for me to see how much more preventive maintenance and review could have been done.
I will post the results as they happen.
|
paulb4333
|
02/25/10 05:34am |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Turbo dead on 2006 C7 CAT
The CAC looks like a radiator, and usually sits in front of the coolant radiator. The charge air coming from the turbo's outlet runs thru a tube into the CAC. The other side has a couple of ....
If it's in a 'Cat house' I'm sure they'll figure out what happened and/or check for things other than just looking at the croaked turbo itself.
Now this is HELPFUL info..appreciate the insight...
The noise was louder outside.
The good news, from my perspective is that the dealer and the CAT dealer doing the work, gave the rig a clean bill of health less than 6 months ago, did all the maintenance and seem to "own" the problem.
Lots of opportuntities to learn about new things here. The amount of knowledge and willingness to share is just amazing.
|
paulb4333
|
02/24/10 06:00pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Slober tube on 99 cummins 5.9 ?????
On a ISB DP the slobber tube is on the passenger side near the fan behind A/C compressor & air compressor.
Add a 3/4" water hose to it and bring it to below the radiator to stop the oil from going into the CAC.
Leave the converter hole open. It is suppose to be that way.
The fluid is probably from the slobber tube.
You can clean the CAC everytime you change the top fuel filter.
Many use Simple Green. The first time with heavy crud it may take some engine degreaser to cut it.
|
Triker33
|
02/22/10 01:32pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: What is Aqua-Hot?
If you do it yourself, yearly service is cheap...cost of a fuel nozzle and a fuel filter...under 30 bucks and you are done. The real work is in accessing the unit and all the labor.
First time i did it, took me many hours, but i was learning.
Next time i did it, one hr.... replace nozzle, fuel filter, check photo disc, clean chamber, measure electrode gap, check coolant level and refill, change radiator cap if need (another 13 bucks), fire up and check for black or white smoke and let the neighbors enjoy your AH...;)
|
caymann
|
02/14/10 05:22pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: diesel pusher overheating
Quite a lot of ALMOST correct information.
The air flows from front to back, with the fan pushing the air through the CAC (Charge Air Cooler-- also called after-cooler and inter-cooler) and then through the RADIATOR.
So the dirt is deposited mainly on the FRONT of the CAC, NOT on the radiator.
It has to be cleaned from the FRONT. Access through the bedroom. Take a strong flashlight and look inside the fan shroud/between fan blades. The center will be clean, since the fan blades sling the dirt to the perimeter. VERIFY THAT THE PERIMETER OF THE CAC IS AS CLEAN AS THE CENTER.
This needs to be done at least once a year on any rear radiator coach.
|
wolfe10
|
02/13/10 06:20pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: diesel pusher overheating
No it is not normal I'll bet you have a rear radiator. Sounds like you need to add a slobber tube (a rubber hose added to the engine breather) and clean the radiator. The engine breather is not long enough (most engines are behind the radiator except in MHs) to stop oil particles from the engine getting on the radiator making it easier for it to hold any dirt/dust which reduces air flow. Steam cleaning is better than pressure washing as it's easy to damage the radiator fins with a pressure washer. This cleaning is something you can do yourself, especially if lifting the beds gets you to the engine. Otherwise you have to do it from underneath the MH as it needs to be done from the front of the radiator and will require several times using a good degreaser and lots of water.
|
Ivylog
|
02/13/10 05:02pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Radiator Cleaning?
All this talk about cleaning the CAC and radiator, where is the A/C condenser in a DP? Do DPs use electric A/C systems with the condenser out front, or do they use belt driven compressors (on the engine) with the condenser near or within the CAC/radiator stack?
Do we need to clean the condenser too?
|
Steve S.
|
02/02/10 07:11pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Radiator Cleaning?
I finished my radiator cleaning job this afternoon. I first used Awesome on both sides of the stacked radiator, rinsing each side as I finished spraying it twice. Then I repeated the process using Simple Green. I had a lot of dirty/greasy water on the driveway, however, neither product did much for the grease or dirty stains on the outside of the radiator. After using each product, I started the engine and let the fan push the remainder of the soapy substance through, and then rinsed again.
My question is, how do I know the fins are clean since I can't see inside of them.
|
Tarheel 2
|
02/01/10 03:32pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Ford Fan Clutch Whacky
Clean radiator coils and grille but it could be a bad clutch not likely
|
fourmat
|
01/29/10 09:47am |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Service brakes?? Heading to the mts-
I would get a full PM service and the Allison fluid changed to synthetic. Clean the radiator and charge air cooler yourself to save money. The brakes should be fine at 60K and should be self adjusting but get them inspected anyway. If for some reason they are not, learn how to adjust them yourself, it's very simple and takes minutes.
|
Mike384
|
01/21/10 08:43am |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: GMC vs Vixen - comments sought
Vixen vs. GMC vs. Revcon vs. ??? vs. FMC.
The first motor home I ever purchased was an FMC. It struck me as good looking, low, small enough to manuver, yet big enough to spend time inside. That is what I ran for several years until my wife decided that she would like a smaller coach.
So we found a Vixen 21SE in good shape. It was one of the later ones with the solid raised top. It is the quiestest coach ever built bar none! I had to crack my window to listen to know if the engine was runnig or not. Designed in a wind tunnel, it had zero wind noise. Fiber glass body. Very low yet had 6'5" head clearance inside (floor was suspended between the frame rails). Got 20 MPG overall. It would take the Grapevine's 6% grade at 55mph. It had four wheel independent suspention with air assist and rode like a dream.
I sold it within two years.
Why? It was just too small. Hated to give up the 20 mpg and go back to the 7.5 of the FMC (which we had kept) but the FMC is the correct size for us. Small enough and low enough (9'3") to go anywhere, yet big enough to stretch out in and not be on top of each other. The Vixen would be a great weekender, but for anything over 4 days it was just too small. Some dedicated Vixen owners would aurgue with that statement but I think it fits for most people.
I believe the best website to look at for a review of Vixens is Specialized in Bozeman Montana. They now have the molds and fully support all Vixen models. Vixen history and models.
Two types of Vixens were built. The first and majority were the flat topped ones with the pop top (Vixen 21TD). They were powered by 6 cyl turbo BMW diesel connected to a manual shift Renault transaxel. They could be parked in a standard home garage and got 27-29 mpg but a little under powered. No onboard generator or house air.
That designed was changed to where the power plant and transaxel was changed to a Buick Century transverse V6 and auto transaxel. Solid raised top with generator and house air. That is what I had. The gas versions have the radiator low up front and the diesels have it off set in the rear. I had no cooling issues.
Now as to carrying a scooter. I would not do it with a Vixen as the suspention is fine for what it weighs, but adding weight would be a problem. The tire size will not support additional weight. The rear swing axels are not BMW, but were Ford and under sized. That has been corrected by an aftermarket manufacturer. The front axel was a widend Chev axel and the front compartment handle and latch was from a VW beetle. Saginaw steering column.
When it comes to an FMC, I would not carry a scooter on the rear either. Not because of cooling issues (which is NOT an issue if the radiator is kept CLEAN!), but as a rear engined coach that would unbalance the coach. The FMC is also four wheel independent suspention so the engine drive line is only about 5" long so the rear wheels are further rearward than most rear engined units. The rear suspension is trailig arm with large torson bars (no springs).
As suggested above, I would either pull a small trailer or tow a toad. The FMC is also quiet up front due to the engine being in the rear and has a dry bath (very important in my view) and, as in the Revcon case, handles very well when the front end is maintained. On my trip to MO last summer the GPS said I hit 82 mph but it handles so well I didn't even notice when I did it.
I really like the handling and suspension of the FMC. I never met a GMC that I didn't pass!. I have looked an many newer coaches, but the 16" floor level of the FMC, the rear engine and it's manuverability keeps me coming back. Any of the older coaches will require some "mechanical skills", but that comes with the territory. At least with them, the systems are generally simple enough that the average person can learn how they work and can work on them. With all of them, parts are available as either new or upgraded to a later style so that is not an issue. They all have support groups as well.
A few pictures of my coach.
What ever you choose, go out and keep the white line movin',
|
BigRabbitMan
|
01/21/10 12:24am |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Service brakes?? Heading to the mts-
For the majority of my "RV career" we stayed out east...where the mountains are milder...but here are some thing that helped us when we did our first trip out to the West...where long grades up and down really opened up our eyes a few times. But then and since...if you run under control with well maintained coach...should have no problems and great views!
1: I reviewed our owners manual and made some mental notes as to the proper use of our retarder, transmission and use of brakes. For big hills and long grades, you use all 3 to slow down.
2: Noted the max temp range desirable for transmission, turbo, and engine oil. Monitor these closely when climbing/decending.
3: On some DP's due to air & dust flow your radiator can become dirty...keep this clean to maximise cooling.
4: If you get your brakes hot...drive to cool them down...the air flow will help. Stopping and parking, and setting your parking brake, are potential problems when brakes are very hot.
|
f.wernlein
|
01/20/10 12:11pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Radiator Cleaning?
Our 2008 has the intercooler and radiator stacked vertically not horizontally. Even if I had a horizontally stacked system I would still flush from back to front, I would just do it more often. I clean heavily twice a year and rinse whenever I wash the RV just like my cars. This rinsing habit comes from to many years by the ocean and the salt airs corrosive affect on radiators.
Randy
|
randallb
|
01/19/10 12:24pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Radiator Cleaning?
Why do you guys think it is a good idea to try to rinse the dirt through the radiator. I agree with spraying the cleaner/degreaser onto the engine side of the radiator. I also spray it onto the outside of the radiator, but you should only rinse from the outside. You want to push the garbage out of the fins not into the fins. Always flush in the opposite direction of the airflow. If the debris/dirt is only imbedded in the first 1/4 of the radiator depth, why do you want to push it through the remaining 3/4's of the core.
Randy
Any other views on this? It makes sense to me, and sounds much easier.
I've been back flushing my radiator like this for years. The only thing I'll add to the above is that I use hot water to rinse the radiator with. Works well and you should see the dirt that ends up on the driveway.
In THEORY, I totally agree. It would be best to flush from the back forward-- opposite the direction of air flow.
BUT, reality is that were you to use enough PSI to go through the radiator, air gap, CAC (Charge Air Cooler) and still have enough PSI to knock dirt and oily deposits off the FRONT of the CAC, you would be using enough PSI to bend the radiator fins.
Sure, start that way, but then take a strong flashlight and look around the perimeter of the FRONT of the CAC. If you have the sandwiched radiator, as the vast majority of rear radiator coaches do, I would be very surprised if it is clean.
And even if you think it is clean, you would sure have nothing to loose at this point by cleaning from the front (inside fan shroud/between fan blades). Just for fun, have someone watching the effluent-- suspect it will be quite dirty.
|
wolfe10
|
01/19/10 10:57am |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
RE: Radiator Cleaning?
Tarheel 2.....I agree with wolfe10......This is how I do it:
I use a pump garden sprayer and fill it with Simple Green or other degreaser. I remove the bedroom floor covers and use a flashlight and one of those push button pick up tools that is about 18" long with the three fingers that come out at the end. I use this to remove large items of trash that is caught between the radiator and fan shroud (I do this carefully so I don't damage the radiator fins). An air hose works well for blowing out the small stuff.
I spray as much of the surface as I can reach from inside the coach with the degreaser and the rest of it from under the rear on both sides. I spray it liberally with cleaner and then try to rinse it off before it dries on.
I found a cheap water hose wand with an adjustable sprayer head at WalMart. I use this to rinse off the radiator. I rinse the radiator until it runs clean. Once I'm done, I fire up the coach and flood the radiator with water from underneath. This lets the fan blades push more rinse water through the radiator and CAC.
I've been doing this every spring and have never had any issues.
|
Diplomat Don
|
01/18/10 08:39pm |
Class A Motorhomes
|
|
