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Smaller SUV FLat Tow AND Dolly
Are any of the smaller 4&4 suvs flat towable and dolly towable without conversion. We would like to use our dolly a couple more years before adding flat towing equipment. Thanks for any help.
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Suncruiser32
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03/19/10 09:37am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Ford Escape
We bought an '09 Escape with the intention of towing it "4-down." In June of 2009 on our first trip towing, after 286 miles, we burnt up our transmission. What a hassle. After that I researched the issue and I found there are many transmissions that have been burned up-some are on their 3rd or fourth transmissions. Ford continues to replace transmissions under warranty and say the Escape can be flat towed??? That is if you use the "suggested" fixes of new dipsticks and lowering transmission fluids to nearly the add level.Once was enough for us--we do not want to use a tow dolly so we replaced our Escape with a new GMC Terrain. Do your research before flat towing an Escape-good luck.
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Boldtning
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03/16/10 06:53am |
Dinghy Towing
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Flat Tow 2007 Accord Coupe V6 Automatic (UPDATE) 14 Mar 2010
Hi!
I'm pretty new here and to owning a DP, but it's not our first rec vee. We have just recently purchased our new 'toy' and we are looking to flat tow our 2007 Honda Accord EX V6 coupe w/auto trans. No, the car wasn't purchased/planned to be the towed, but rather as it was what we desired to own at the time, before buying a DP came into the picture.
I've read the posts that seemed to bear some of the information from my searches here and I have made some phone calls to: Honda corporate, our dealership, Remco and Blue Ox. I nearly got 4 different answers in order: Honda corp said "Don't even think about it, you have to buy a CRV". The Honda dealer said "Maybe, but better not, we're not sure, we wouldn't warrant it." Remco said "Sure you can! That's why we don't make a pump, but follow the emergency towing instructions precisely." Blue Ox said "We don't know, but we make a base plate for it!"
You can probably see where my confusion is, and I'm not sure who to trust. I don't want to be out $3k for a transmission certainly. So, I inquired further with Honda corporate regarding the "Procedure" I've seen listed here in a couple threads, and they refused to acknowledge it's existence. I also pointed out that in my owners manuals there is no "Emergency Towing" section listed (yup, I've been through them cover to cover), and both times I called they replied with, that is because your vehicle must be towed on a flat-bed. Interesting, yet very contradictory to the other opinions abroad.
I suppose my primary question is (and why I'm here): Is it safe to tow my car (not a variant) 4 down, or should I just dolly it?
Thank you!
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Rhyph
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02/22/10 06:40pm |
Dinghy Towing
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Towing with Hitch Extenders w/ Long TCs
I note that when using long truck campers (longer than bed-length), manufacturers recommend converting to a HD Class V hitch (2 1/2" square receiver rather than 2" square),
(See: HITCH as an example)
then using a long hitch extender, or draw-bar (almost 4ft long when using an 11ft-6" camper on a 8ft bed). (See: EXTENDER as an example)
I haven't found any reference to whether one "really" should use a WDH with such an extender, or if it's effective when used with one, even if it's technically allowed.
And of course, such an extender gives the trailer more "leverage" to jack the tow vehicle around in wind and such sway-wise. Also, any "play" or "flex" in the joints or the square tubing or receiver would seem to be magnified in its effect on the truck. I see it reduces the tow capacity to about 6000 pounds.
I do have a Hensley Arrow hitch, which pretty much eliminates sway, but it is a WDH, so would depend upon it being effective w/ the extension, and it would be useless flat towing, or dolly-towing vehicles.
I would be using a 1T dually as a tow vehicle, so the extra stability of the DRW would help, but I would like to hear any real-world experiences or feedback towing trailers of 6000 pounds (about the weight of a loaded, enclosed cargo trailer I have), or flat-towed cars behind a long-bed dually w/ an 11ft camper on it.
The alternative would be sticking with the shortest track camper that would have the amenities (as short as bed-length) desired to minimize the length of, or completely eliminate the need for, an extension.
Thanks-
Bob
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bobinyelm
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02/21/10 04:01pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: 2001 VW GLS - can it be flat towed?
I have a 2009 BeeDub (VW) that I will be flat towing... It's a 6-speed manual trans and there is nothing special needed.
I got a Blue Ox towbar and setup. It requires a bit of work to install in the car, but I think it will be a lot better than the tow dolly.
Stefan
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TDInewguy
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02/20/10 09:20pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Newie What or how to tow a vehicle
As others have suggested, The BEST system is what works for you.
I don't want to have additional maintenance of a dolly (Tires, brakes, wheel bearings). Have no place to store tow dolly at home.
Flat 4 down towing made most sense for us since we needed to replace a aging vehicle in the fleet. Honda CRV 2 wheel drive automatic is Honda approved and gets great reviews from this and all forums I have visited. Anyone I have talked to that has a CRV gives high regards.
I went with the following to set the Honda up for towing
1) Blue Ox Base plate (bought new $ 360.00)
2) Blue Ox Aventa II tow bar (bought used craigs list)
3) Brake Buddy supplemental braking (bought used craigs list)
4) Blue Ox ADD-A-LIGHT tail light brake light (E-bay new)
5) Toad Charge (Just the Charger part) to keep the TOADS battery charged while towing
All said and done I have just over $ 1,000.00 with the Blue OX base plate being the most expensive as I could not find any used ones for a 2009 (2007-2010) CRV. The Aventa II tow bar is like brand new the previous owner only used it 2 or 3 times (not even a scratch). You can save a lot of money purchasing used and DIY if you have the ability and time.
The base plate was a piece of cake compared to the wiring and if I had to do it over(wiring) I would run the wiring different than I did. If interested you can read about my adventures in the Dinghy towing section on the forum. Dinghy Forum
If you decide to go used route (Flat 4 OR Dolly) check Craigs List, E-bay and Hitch Tradder.com as there are some good deals if you look.
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Kamphiker
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02/15/10 06:04am |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Get to bring the Motorsycle along now.
Thats cool! I like it.
Towing on front wheel, ha- Im seeing block and tackle on roof mounted boom, actualy.. you could use a verticle boom that slipped thru rack to ground with hand winch, course youd need to tie off front wheel, put a spreader bar on bike or 2 people to keep it from flopping, mount a light something elsed to carry. possible, what happens to strap tension as bike pivots like going thru dip or is the suspension not fully compressed?
can you back up at all or will it cock like flat towing a vehicle?.
Good Questions..
The winch thing would work. But thats alot of trouble. and Alot heavier then a piece of 2x6. Depending on the rake of the forks the front tire would stay upright.. but wobble a little back and forth going strait. Would deffinatly burn a tire with any distance.
The front wheel is captured onto the rack. It would pivot at the axle allowing the rear to come up and down. a couple straps on the bar would help in keeping it tight and smooth. I wont be collapsing the forks that much. just some pressure. EDIT: I forgot about the suspension. There's 9 inches of travel.. plenty of room for potholes, driveway aprons and such.
I havent tried to back up yet. But I'd expect to with no problems. It will pivot just like a trailer at the head bearing. I'd thought about making the rack pivot too. But, that would definatly knife like a car on a dolly.
I think I tought it out pretty good. I'll take pics if it goes wonky and decides to have a yard sale in a ditch. :B
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J&L Rivera
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02/12/10 12:28pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Anyone towing a ford escape???
TSB stands for Technical Service Bulletin. Also, belowis an excerpt from pages 323-324 of the 2010 Escape Owners Manual:
"Before recreational flat towing your vehicle, the transmission fluid level
may need to be set to a lower level. These guidelines are designed to
prevent damage to your transmission. Before you recreational flat tow,
your fluid level must be verified by an authorized dealer.
This fluid level is within the normal operating fluid range and does not
require that you have your fluid level readjusted after recreational flat
tow operation."
thanks to all...if I knew it was going to be this difficult to tow this thing, I would have bought a Jeep....oh well whats done is done...think I will start looking again at a tow dolly:B
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Daboo
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02/03/10 06:26pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow bar vs tow dolly
The reason you would choose to flat tow with a tow bar: You will only tow one car and you don't mind modifying it for flat towing. You will pick a car to tow that can be flat towed with little or no modification. You don't mind spending a bit more for the high quality tow bar, lights and braking system that makes flat towing easy and safe.
The reason you would choose to tow with a tow dolly: You will be towing one of several different cars, and don't want to modify them all with tow bar attachments. Your car can't be towed four-down without expensive modifications. You think that buying a tow dolly once (for a little less than setting up a typical car and tow bar setup) is worth the small additional hassle of loading a car on a tow dolly. You don't really think that loading and unloading the car onto the dolly is much of a hassle anyway. You think that having the front wheels off the ground and not turning reduces wear and tear on the drivetrain of the towed car.
I use a tow dolly. I got it cheaper, with electric brakes, than I could set up a tow bar setup on my car, and I anticipate towing several different cars with it, so I don't need to worry about setting them up either. Plus I am toying with the idea of modifying it to carry my two scooters when I'm not towing a car with it. So far, it hasn't been much more hassle than I imagine hooking up a flat-tow vehicle would be. Hopefully these ideas give you some help making your own decision. If I was only every going to tow one car, rather than one of several, I'd set up for flat towing.
Brian
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VintageRacer
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02/03/10 01:11pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow Dolly - Can Someone Please Explain?
Thanks all for the info! I also talked to the company that builds the dolly that I will be buying and really understand now why one can't (or shouldn't) backup with the dolly.
Oh and my guy also said no matter what anybody tells me, be sure to lock the steering wheel. That was related to a question I had for him on how a tight turn with a dolly might damage the vehicle.
I have to get a dolly over flat towing because I just can't spend the (significant) extra dollars to tow four down with my Chrysler Town & Country van. $1450 compared to about $3700.
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stugpanzer
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01/25/10 08:00am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: DP Motorhome with Allison being Towed
Here are some facts:
a. Drive shaft disconnected OR axle shaft required for towing
b. In unpopulated areas, a long time and lots of money could be required to get a flat bed, also long wait along side of the road
c. More money is required to pick a route with adequate clearances
d. Some axle shafts are short with a spline on each end, remove the end cap and pull shaft out and replace cap to retain oil.
e. On some axles a dummy cap would be required for the axle shaft has a flange on the end which is the axle end and the cap, these units would require drive shaft disconnect if the tow person does not have a dummy cap
f. The odds are good that if the engine is running the unit can be for short distance and a low speed without damage.
g. A tow of 50 feet or so will not damage anything.
h. Different vehicle designs can require different attaching methods to the chassis for towing, example: on independent front suspensions the tires should be supported on a tow dolly, once saw a bum tow operator pull the front end off
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targaboat
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01/19/10 09:24am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Chrysler 300 Towing
RECREATIONAL TOWING (BEHIND
MOTORHOME, ETC.)
TOWING THIS VEHICLE BEHIND ANOTHER
VEHICLE (Flat towing with all four wheels on the
ground)
Recreational towing for this vehicle is not recommended.
NOTE: If the vehicle requires towing, make sure all four
wheels are off the ground.
Can't tow it as is. If it's AWD it cannot be towed at all. If it's FWD a Remco lube pump may help....
The Chrysler 300 is a RWD or AWD not a FWD would think you could rear load it on a car dolly as long as it wasn't AWD. You can't tow it with drive wheels down for more then 50 miles if I remember. Look in your owners manual it will have a section on towing it. You can always put it on a trailer.
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Perrysburg Dodgeboy
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01/17/10 05:29pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow vehicles
Chevy HHR, lots of room and has 8 air bags. You have to pull the #8 fuse, I did for one trip. I now have a on/off switch and now just have to put transmission in neutral and flip the switch. GBY...
Agreed. The HHR has the combination of relatively light weight, roominess and is 100% flat towing compatible. This is an excerpt from my owner's manual:
Dinghy Towing
You may dinghy tow your vehicle from the front following
these steps:
1. Set the parking brake.
2. Turn the ignition key to ACC to unlock the steering wheel.
3. Shift your transmission to NEUTRAL (N).
4. Release the parking brake.
To prevent the battery from draining while the vehicle is
being towed, remove the following fuse from the floor
console fuse block: 8 (Ignition Switch, PASS-Key® III+).
See Floor Console Fuse Block on page 5-120 for
more information.
Remember to reinstall the fuse once you have reached
your destination.
Notice: If you exceed 65 mph (105 km/h) while
towing your vehicle, it could be damaged. Never
exceed 65 mph (105 km/h) while towing your vehicle.
Notice: Towing your vehicle from the rear could
damage it. Also, repairs would not be covered by
the warranty. Never have your vehicle towed from
the rear.
Dolly Towing
Your vehicle cannot be dolly towed, but can be dinghy towed. See “Dinghy Towing” earlier in this section.
Notice: Dolly towing your vehicle may cause damage because of reduced ground clearance. Always tow your vehicle using the dinghy towing procedure listed in this section or put your vehicle
on a flatbed truck.
A switch is available so you don't have to pull the #8 fuse and is available here:
http://www.rv-partsplus.com/home/accessories/
http://chevytruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/87silver/292189-thmb.jpg
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barbjohn
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01/12/10 06:52pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow Dolly vs 4 wheels Down Pros/Cons
Just personal experience here. I was 'fortunate' that a friend of ours let us borrow their tow dolly for a year.
These are the reasons I decided to switch to 4 down towing:
Storage at home - storage was in our backyard, down a hill and I had to move it by handTwo people required for getting the vehicle onto the dolly. Myself guiding my wife driving the car onto the dollyBecause of the design of the dolly and my wife's car I need to build wooden extensions for the dolly ramps so not to destroy the bottom part of the bumper on my wife's car. That was just something else to carryThe way the dolly was setup required that I have to lay on the ground under the dolly to secure the safety chains to the vehicle. Living in the south most of the time the ground was damp/muddy. On top of that I have bad knees which made it even more difficultThe safety straps for the front wheels of the vehicle required constant readjusting every 50 to 100 miles. One time a strap came loose (less than 50 miles since the last readjustment) and the hook was bouncing off the ground beating the rocker panel of my wife's new car. She loved that. I even replaced the straps and still had problems with them coming looseHad a flat tire - no spare. I know my fault for not having one. But just something else to carryFinally the addition weight of the dolly itself was cause for concern. Why pull extra weight you don't need beside the extra weight of a spare tire and the wooden extensions?
Like I said this is just my personal experience. With a different dolly design and a different car maybe my experience would have been better.
I have found towing 4 down a MUCH easier experience. About every 5/6 years we trade a vehicle so when you average the cost of brackets/installation it's just a few hundred dollars a year. Well worth the expense to get rid of the extra work and frustration. BTW who ever said RVing was cheap?
Just my $.02 worth
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ThunderingQuiet
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01/12/10 09:49am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow Dolly vs 4 wheels Down Pros/Cons
Either method of towing a dinghy is fine.
Towed a dinghy on a dolly (dinghy not flat towable) for about 5 years with little to no problems other than hooking-up in a driving rain a couple of times.
We now have a dinghy that can be towed 4 down and do so with little to no problems other than hooking-up in a driving rain a couple of times. Have not used a trailer.
Dolly can be much less cost or even greater cost.
NOTE: Spell check picked-up "towable" as mis-spelled and when clicked on "ignore" spell check failed. So goes the spell check story.
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BaldyD1
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01/09/10 03:17pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Disregard the towing recommendation.
Once while camping in the Colorado mountains a PaceArrow similar to mine came in towing a minivan. Since I had a Fiesta on a dolly I was interested in how the larger car towed, so I walked over and asked about the trip. Sadly, I became a soft shoulder for the story of the MH that burned out the transmission. Had it replaced in Denver. They drove separate over ever hill, and hookup up just a few miles outside the campground where it was flat and drove in together.
My current rig tows the Saturn VUE, equipped as I have it I am below 3,500lb.
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kalynzoo
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01/03/10 11:28pm |
Dinghy Towing
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Advice on flat tow vehicle?
Duplicate please post responses Here
We have a 2008 Damon Astoria class A diesel pusher. We've only been motorhoming for a little over a year. Up to now we've been towing my Buick Century using a tow dolly. However, we're investigating getting a vehicle to flat tow. We can't do straight shift because clutch operation affects back injuries. We'd want something that can be pulled without having to disconnect a driveshaft. We also don't want to have an electric pump or something similar if a failure of the add-on equipment would result in transmission or drive-train damage. Any suggestions?
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c-webster
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12/23/09 11:55am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Jeep Wranglers
I have a Wrangler Rubicon and a Subaru Outback.
The Wrangler can be towed on a trailer or four down.
The Subaru, being an auto tranny, MUST be towed on a trailer. I hear the manual transmission models CAN be flat towed. Not having any personal experience, I can't say for sure.
I have the flatbed trailer, so it is no problem for me.
The owner's manuals for BOTH rigs say NO dolly towing!
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mowermech
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11/25/09 10:47am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: TOWING
The perennial choices are the Honda CR-V and various Saturn models. Also pretty much anything Jeep. But an owner's manual should tell you about towing your Buick. As noted above, a goodly number of later model GM transmissions are flat towable. You just MUST be sure of your transmission model!
REMCO site says you need their Lube Pump for the vehicle you specified.
Motorhome Magazine has a different take on towability. They list ONLY those models the manufacturer says are safely flat towed. This is just me, but I'd select only from those the MFR says are OK. Many have used REMCO pumps but a number have had transmission failure accompanied by lots of hesaid/shesaid between manufacturer and REMCO.
IF you change cars a lot, trading into a towable one makes sense. Also, if you change a lot, a dolly starts to make sense, since there'd be no adapting each new vehicle.
We tow a manual transmission Corolla.
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j-d
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11/24/09 05:17pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Tow bars vs Tow Dolly
The major disadvantage is that they really are a PITA to use. Getting the car properly placed on the dolly can be frustrating with the mini-van since you really can't lean out far enough to see the front tire. Secondly, the tow straps are a hassle. It's a dirty job, takes much more time than hooking up tow bars, and need to be re-tightened several times in a trip to be really secure.Hmm... I've towed on a dolly or flat since '95. I must have missed out on all the "fun" you describe. I drive the '05 Ody up the ramps and tie it down. I do stop and check the straps after a few miles, but I do the same when towing four down too. Then that's it. The dolly (Demco KarKaddy 460) has surge brakes so nothing to mess with there. The Demco folds up so it doesn't take much space.
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Deen
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11/20/09 12:27pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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