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RE: Anyone towing a ford escape???
I've towed my 09 Escape 2000 miles without any problem. Oil level and procedure as per supplemental towing booklet. Oil level is at minimum level and still call it within Ford specs. I kept track of trans temp at each stop 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Max temp 140 degrees. Well below normal operating temp. I am aware of a few others that have been successful over 2,000 to 6,000 miles without problem. Please ensure that you independently check your oil level after the Ford dealer has lowered the level. There is plenty of evidence that they are not lowering it adequately which leads to failure. It is difficult to check and get it to the proper level and as one posted already mentioned stand quard when they service your vehicle to ensure they don't add oil. That did happen to one couple. I have a sign on my trans dipstick indicating lowered oil level. Talked to a lady yesterday who had towed hers from Ontario Canada to Yuma without problem. I am aware of another person who installed an oil temp gauge and wired it into his coach and his temps where very similar to mine. I usually travel at truck speed 55-62 miles and hour. I am by no means 100% confident but am feeling better after 2000 miles but had I been aware of the issues prior to purchase I probably would not have bought the Escape but I would not have bought the Liberty either. I did look at the Jeep Liberty but the reviews on poor mileage turned me off them. Without exception anyone that has the Escape say they love the car and I am really pleased with the mileage it's getting and enjoy driving it. Also, on another note, only the two wheel drives are capable of being towed on a dolly. Four whell drive must be either 4 wheel down or on a trailer 4 wheels up.
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juliemay123
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02/06/10 09:03pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow bar vs tow dolly
Your mind will be made up the first time you have to back into a RV parking place and it is cold and raining. The tow bar take about 1/4th the time that it takes with a dolly.
I disagree, as I can load my dolly and connect all straps in less then 10 minutes which is about the same time to connect my Honda 4 down. Based on 1/4 that would be 2.5 min. for 4 down. When it is raining you get wet regardless on how you tow.
A tow dolly w/electric brakes is the most cost effective method. You will have to have a brake controller installed on your MH, but that is not a big deal or expensive. I would also recommend a tow receiver on the back of your vehicle, not expensive, so you can tow the dolly to your campsite or move it around. We started with this same issue with our RAV4 auto 2WD and towed it on the dolly for 5 years. We then purchased a 2004 Honda Pilot towable 4 down and set it up at a much greater expense then the dolly. The hookup time is about the same, the only difference you don't have a dolly to park at your campsite, but I never had a problem w/dolly at any campsite in the past. Our Car-Tow Dolly by Forest River w/electric brakes cost under $1,000 when new including all straps and a spare tire and breakaway system. I also have a enclosed car trailer for towing my 63 Grand Prix to car shows, etc. There are benefits for each, depending on your needs.
Good Luck in you decision.
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Nomadac
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02/04/10 11:38am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: tow dolly for Toyota Scion Autotransmission
With your dinghy, I recommend the dolly (w/brakes). Used a dolly for about 5 yrs. and never had a real problem. Now have a dinghy that can be towed 4 down and it takes nearly the same time to hook-up and both are a pain when it rains. There may be the possibility of lube pump by Remco, but, with lube pump, tow bar, base plate, and electrical set-up the cost could be up there.
Have noticed more light weight aluminum trailers now with dinghies of the size you have. There have been 4 RVers in our park towing w/cars on trailers. One had a Jeep Wrangler on a trailer.
There will be some on this forum that feel not going 4 down is a crime, but, you must do what's best for you! Good luck.
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BaldyD1
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01/31/10 07:32pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow bar options
In California the cut off is #1500lbs. More than that and you need brakes on the toad/trailer/dolly.
While I'm a firm proponent of using a supplemental braking system, and most importantly a break away system, surprisingly California does NOT require either one while towing a vehicle four wheels down (see Page 27 at the following link). Calif RV Handbook
I stand corrected.
Of course, I am a native Californian, I know that to our lawmakers towing a travel trailer over 1500# is a dangerous hazard without brakes. And a fully loaded Suburban toad behind an overloaded class A does not require brakes or a break away system.
What was I thinking, logic, not here.:h
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MartinDYN
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01/28/10 10:51am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow bar options
In California the cut off is #1500lbs. More than that and you need brakes on the toad/trailer/dolly.
While I'm a firm proponent of using a supplemental braking system, and most importantly a break away system, surprisingly California does NOT require either one while towing a vehicle four wheels down (see Page 27 at the following link). Calif RV Handbook
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BobGed
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01/27/10 11:08pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: triple tow ball to ball
I'm surprised that California lets you double tow. But I think there the first trailer has to be a 5Th wheel, not ball to ball.
Nope, it's legal in Calif to tow two tag along trailers. I had a hard time believing it myself but I checked with highway patrol and the vehicle code.
Would you be so kind as to give the California Vehicle Code reference?
It is not only what the CVC does say, but it is also what it doesn't say. Section 21715(a) says "No passenger vehicle regardless of weight, or any other motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen, shall draw or tow more than one vehicle in combination, except that an auxiliary dolly or tow dolly may be used with the towed vehicle." My old Suburban is restricted to towing one trailer because section 465 states "A 'passenger vehicle' is any motor vehicle, other than a motortruck, truck tractor, or a bus, as defined in Section 233 , and used or maintained for the transportation of persons. The term 'passenger vehicle' shall include a housecar."
My pickup truck is defined in section 471 as "A 'pickup truck' is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. 'Pickup truck' does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a 'utility body'." and section 410 defines a motortruck as "A 'motor truck' or 'motortruck' is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property." Therefore my pickup truck can pull more than one trailer because it is not defined as a "passenger vehicle", it is defined as a "motortruck".
Section 29004(a)(1) states "Except as required under paragraph (2), every towed vehicle shall be coupled to the towing vehicle by means of a safety chain, cable, or equivalent device in addition to the regular drawbar, tongue or other connection." 29004(a)(2) says "Any vehicle towed by a tow truck shall be coupled to the tow truck by means of at least two safety chains in addition to the primary restraining system. The safety chains shall be securely affixed to the truck frame, bed, or towing equipment, independent of the towing sling, wheel lift, or under-reach towing equipment." 29004(d) states "Subdivision (a) does not apply to a semitrailer having a connecting device composed of a fifth wheel and kingpin assembly, and it does not apply to a towed motor vehicle when steered by a person who holds a license for the type of vehicle being towed." Section 29006(a) states "No person shall operate a vehicle towing another motor vehicle upon a freeway unless the towing vehicle is coupled to the towed vehicle by a rigid structure attached securely to both vehicles by nonrigid means." Section 670 defines a "vehicle" as "a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks." So when these section state "vehicle" that is not just the power unit.
29003(a) states "Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight drawn. The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the towing and towed vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement or bracing of the frame to provide sufficient strength and rigidity to prevent undue distortion of the frame." 29003(b) states "The drawbar, tongue, or other connection between the towing and towed vehicles shall be securely attached and structurally adequate for the weight drawn."
Section 15278(a)(1) states " A driver is required to obtain an endorsement issued by the department to operate any commercial motor vehicle that is any of the following: (1) A double trailer."
Section 35401(a) and (b) state "(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b), (c), and (d), a combination of vehicles coupled together, including attachments, may not exceed a total length of 65 feet.
(b) (1) A combination of vehicles coupled together, including attachments, that consists of a truck tractor, a semitrailer, and a semitrailer or trailer, may not exceed a total length of 75 feet, if the length of neither the semitrailers nor the trailer in the combination of vehicles exceeds 28 feet 6 inches."
When I put all this information together the interpretation I get is as long as I use my current pickup truck I can tow two trailers because it is defined as a "motortruck" and not a "passenger vehicle." As long as my hitch is rated for the amount of total weight I am pulling it is ok for the first trailer to be a tag along because never did I see a requirement for the first trailer to be a fifth wheel. As long as my license has a double endorsement and I am not over 65 ft in length I am good to go. I do need to keep the combination in control because section 21711 states " No person shall operate a train of vehicles when any vehicle being towed whips or swerves from side to side or fails to follow substantially in the path of the towing vehicle."
I also found information on the CalTrans web site that had information on "longer combination vehicles" and saw the following statement: "California Legal: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 35401(a) states that no combination of vehicles may exceed a length of 65 feet. This section does not mention the maximum number of vehicles allowed. (However, Section 21715 limits the number of trailers to one if the towing vehicle is a passenger vehicle, or if the towing vehicle is under 4,000 pounds unladen.)."
I apologize for this post being so long but I was trying the best I could to cover all the bases. If someone knows or can find the section of the California vehicle code that states the first trailer is required to be a fifth wheel please forward that section number to me so I can correct my analysis.
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rrnelsonjr
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01/25/10 11:28pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Car on a dolly
"Current" rear wheel drive cars can be dolly towed the same way the older ones could: By removing the driveshaft or installing a driveshaft disconnect!
The only cars that could not be dolly towed for long distances were the ones that had the "torque-tube" driveshaft, and they quit making them pretty much by 1950.
I have never claimed that I tow on a dolly backwards. I can't imagine where you got that idea!
Yeah, OK, I stand corrected. Dollies are “primarily” used with front wheel drive vehicles except those that go through the trouble of modifying the rear wheel drive train, so you can then put it on a dolly instead of towing it four down. Makes a lot of sense.
Also: I didn’t mean you literally referring to those who tow on dollies backwards, I was speaking in general terms. Its funny though how safe you say it is but you claim you never do it yourself.
"SAFE"? Just to be sure, I double checked my post. Nope, I never used that word. I merely said that many people have done it, for many miles. That doesn't mean it IS safe, or that I think it is safe, it merely means that it has been done, apparently with little or no trouble.
I don't "claim" I never do it, I flatly STATE I have never done it. I don't own a dolly, and have never owned one. However, I have RENTED them a few times, but I never had to tow backwards. I just removed the driveshaft. No problem.
My towing is either on a trailer, or four down. Now that I have a trailer, there will never be a need to rent a dolly again.
And certainly no need to EVER BUY one!
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mowermech
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01/22/10 08:15pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Newbie Here! Help - Buying an RV - Winnebag 35J 2008
We have the same floor plan, chassis, on a Damon. No problems towing, we do it all the time with either a dolly and toad, or a 20' trailer with toys. We take up to 8 (6 kids, 2 adults), and have no problems with sleeping space or traveling space. This bunk floorplan was the reason we bought it in the first place, and we looked seriously at an Itasca with the same model prior to purchase. The Ford has a 5000 Lb tow rating, and IIRC the Workhorse has a 3500 Lb tow rating. This of course is then dependent on your other weights (GVWR, GAWR, and GCVWR). The kids all love to travel in this MH as there are really 3 seperate areas for them to either play video games, watch movies, listen to music, or sleep, depending on their mood at the moment. The floorplan also works well for travel, the bathroom, frig, microwave, dining area are all totally accessible while under way. Good Luck with your decision and Welcome.
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RRyall
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01/18/10 02:28pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Chrysler 300 Towing
RECREATIONAL TOWING (BEHIND
MOTORHOME, ETC.)
TOWING THIS VEHICLE BEHIND ANOTHER
VEHICLE (Flat towing with all four wheels on the
ground)
Recreational towing for this vehicle is not recommended.
NOTE: If the vehicle requires towing, make sure all four
wheels are off the ground.
Can't tow it as is. If it's AWD it cannot be towed at all. If it's FWD a Remco lube pump may help....
The Chrysler 300 is a RWD or AWD not a FWD would think you could rear load it on a car dolly as long as it wasn't AWD. You can't tow it with drive wheels down for more then 50 miles if I remember. Look in your owners manual it will have a section on towing it. You can always put it on a trailer.
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Perrysburg Dodgeboy
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01/17/10 05:29pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Against The Law
HI,
One question to ask is this one.
Is surge brakes better or worse that electric brakes?
I towed a U-Haul trailer with surge brakes from Oklahoma to California. It was interesting, and I was towing it with a 5,500 pound F-350. The trailer was probably about 4,500 pounds. When decending a hill, if I apply the brakes in the truck, then the trailer slides into the rear of the truck, then it's brakes apply, the trailer slows, and then the truck pulls ahead of the trailer, and repeat.
I also towed a 7,500 pound 60 KW generator that had surge brakes with a F-250 that was probably about 7,000 pounds. That also would surge back and forth while slowing, so I normally would downshift, and keep a slight brake pressure until I was sure that I was going to accelerate again. (in city traffic).
I liked towing with electric brakes much better.
Also I don't know how a short wheelbase tow dolly will work when you are making a turn, then apply the surge brakes.
Good Luck,
Fred.
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Golden_HVAC
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01/14/10 09:31pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Chrysler sebring convert
Check your owners manual to see what it says about towing. I doubt that you can tow 4 down so that leaves either a tow dolly or trailer.
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RicJones
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01/12/10 08:00am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow Dolly vs 4 wheels Down Pros/Cons
Either method of towing a dinghy is fine.
Towed a dinghy on a dolly (dinghy not flat towable) for about 5 years with little to no problems other than hooking-up in a driving rain a couple of times.
We now have a dinghy that can be towed 4 down and do so with little to no problems other than hooking-up in a driving rain a couple of times. Have not used a trailer.
Dolly can be much less cost or even greater cost.
NOTE: Spell check picked-up "towable" as mis-spelled and when clicked on "ignore" spell check failed. So goes the spell check story.
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BaldyD1
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01/09/10 03:17pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow Dolly vs 4 wheels Down Pros/Cons
I have done all three (dolly, four down, and trailer), and IMO, it is a wash.
The trailer is nice, because there is no argument or discussion about brakes, YES, brakes are required in every state for a trailer with a 7000 lb. GVWR.
A trailer can be used with ANY vehicle, up to the size/weight limit of the trailer.
In my State, all trailers get permanent registrations, so that is a non-issue.
Trailer tires are often cheaper than the tires on the vehicle I take with me.
There is NO wear and tear on the vehicle drivetrain. There is also no need to modify the vehicle lighting, or use magnetic mount lights.
And, if I break the Jeep, I can load it up and go home, I don't have to fix it good enough to tow!
A dolly has similar advantages. Many vehicles can be dolly towed that cannot be towed four down. Dollys should have brakes, IMO. The only bone of contention that I have read is lights on the towed vehicle. IMO, it is a good idea. Some say it is not required. Take your pick.
Four down towing is touted by many as "easier" and "less hassle". These same people frequently state that an expensive folding/telescoping towbar is an absolute necessity. Maybe so, but my adjustable A-frame towbar only cost $145, and it tows my Jeep just fine! I frequently hook it up by myself, no problems.
Your choice of vehicles is limited if you want to tow four down. Some vehicles can be towed no problem, some require expensive modifications, and some simply can't be towed. Auxiliary braking systems can be expensive, also, and some have been known to damage the towed vehicles brakes. It is not unheard of for the towbar, base plate, wiring, and braking system totalled together to exceed $2000!
My trailer only cost $2295, and I can load any vehicle on it (that will fit, that is!)!
It all comes down to personal choice.
Good luck.
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mowermech
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01/09/10 01:41pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: PT Cruiser Convertible StANDard
I just started towing a 2006 PT 5 speed. (not a convertible) I have only towed it on one trip, but will be leaving in a couple of weeks for Key West. I also have a 2001 automatic that we towed on a dolly 5 years ago.
It seems to tow good. I towed a Chevy Tracker for 4 years. I have the ReadyBrake and Demco tow bar. I put the Demco base plate on myself. Not too tough, just time consuming removing all the plastic.
Be careful how you hook up the lights. I added extra sockets to mine so I did not have to tie into the existing lights. I made the mistake of hooking up a utility trailer lights to the existing wiring and messed up some kind of computer module and had to have it reset.
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JerryofWV
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01/07/10 06:21pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow Dolly Questions ????
Check your state's lighting requirement for dollies because some (maybe most) states only require that the dolly brake lights "werk" and can be seen from the rear; as well as side marker lights. You probably can pigtail off of the MH if you so desire, but, doubt it's required or necessary. Also, remember that side marker lights are probably required if dolly was produced with them.
The straps are available at most any trailer store, Camping World, and may be available at Wally World or Sears/K-Mart.
Recommend a radial tire of with a heavier load range (original equipment tires are usually minimum load range) no matter what dinghy you tow.
Recommend a spare wheel & tire bolted onto the dolly tongue.
Either method of "breaking" is fine. Stay with the current "breaking" method.
The dolly will bounce when unloaded, but, you must determine the speed at which you are comfortable towing an empty dolly.
Spell Check did not work on this post.
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BaldyD1
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01/03/10 05:50pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Who is behind the wheel?
My daily driver has always been a SRW/DRW truck or full-size SUV. When my parents taught me to drive, it was with a trailer on from the start. And a hat or handkerchief hung over the rearview mirror even when I didn't have a trailer on. To this day, I never use that mirror - only side mirrors. I am comfortable hauling and backing anything, and on our next military move, I will be double towing the gooseneck horsetrailer and the car dolly. DH will be towing the fiver.
I can also operate a tractor with implements, the combine, and I'm sure I will eventually drive the semi and grain trailer, too.
I also have had experiences like others have mentioned, when I have made men speechless when they find out it is a woman behind the wheel. I actually find those occasions very entertaining!
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resmas
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12/27/09 06:34pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: TT Front wheel as in load support while traveling
I am not a trucker but I think the platform that is towed behind a big rig that has a 5th wheel type hitch on it called a jeep, not the 4x4 kind. So how about something like that being towed with a Ranger with a diesel in it towing a 5th wheel, about a 30 footer. The Ranger would have plenty of power and the 5th would have brakes along with the "jeep". Do you see any problem with that?
For a really heavy 5th wheel, you would need something like this powered 5vr dolly:
http://www.myrvtalk.com/attachments/mods/4057d1234544262-tow-your-40-5th-your-f-150-img_1385-small-.jpg
I hope the pic shows up and Sean, from ProPride doesn't mind me linking it.
Wes
***
A bit of trivia:
In reference to the video, this actually happened to me twice; inadvertently going backwards down a hill.
The first time was on a train and was very mild. We had a heavy coal load and I had three locomotives on the head end and a manned pusher on the rear. I went through a dip (scenic Medora) between two long grades and my head end had started up the uphill part. About that time, the lead locomotive quit and a quick assessment was that we could still possibly make the hill, but it would be slow and a close call.
Then, as per Murphys' Law, the pusher locomotive comletely lost its load as it came through the bottom and switched from dynamic braking to traction power. Now we had two left. It looked glum and sure enough we only went about another 1/4 mile and stalled. So I set 10 pounds of air. Prior to this time, I thought 10 pounds would stop a loaded train anywhere. But I hadn't had occasion to stop this train in the first 50 miles and had no idea how bad these brakes were.
As we discussed "doubling the hill" (splitting the train, half at a time), the train began to roll back. The pushers frantically called about the same time I noticed the slow creep, and we set deeper brakes and stopped just fine. We eventually got a push from another train behind us and got a good locomotive from an oncoming empty train.
***
The second time I went backwards, I was towing a loaded car trailer and had about a half mile left to go when I went through a sharp graveled dip on the way to the pasture. Because the dip was so sharp and rough, I slowed way down.
Unfortunately it was winter, and although the dip looked dry, it was an illusion where dust had blown over glare ice on the upside.
I had four wheel drive but it was useless. I almost made it to the top when it lost all traction and began a slow descent backwards. The speed kept picking up as I alternately braked trying to slow it and released brakes in order to have some semblance of steering. I think I maybe got up to 10 mph and was headed to the ditch when I finally hit bottom and was able to stop.
Heart-rending. God, was I glad I had recent experience in backing up a trailer. Makes my palms sweaty to type this after ten years.
Wes
I'd like to see the designer of one of these dollies tow a large trailer between Jackson, MS and Meridian, MS on I-20 at 55 mph with one and report back on it. If he lives to tell the tale with an intact rig I'd be inclined to buy one.
I assume you mean the TT dollies, not the commercial truck dollies already doing this feat daily. But you have a point.
I have touted how great these truck dollies can be. Now I will mention an experience where they didn't work out well. Years ago, while traveling on a two lane road, in very windy conditions, my fellow co-workers and I came upon a Consolidated Freightways rig that had just gone in the ditch. I believe it was just doubles, not triples, and the driver related that the double suddenly started to sway.
Before he could do a thing, the trailers tipped and he and the tractor took a long bouncy 1/4 mile ride to the bottom of a grassy hill, but remained upright. Mildly hurt, the driver also stated that he felt it likely occurred because the trailers were empty which make them considerably more susceptable to side-winds. I will concur, having once been specifically licensed for doubles/triples. This was his first accident of any kind in the 15 years he had worked for CF.
I must also add that I have very little experience actually driving a tractor/trailer truck, but I did religiously study the application to have this endorsement (and all others) added to my license.
Wes
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Wes Tausend
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12/23/09 02:11pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: TT Front wheel as in load support while traveling
...
Other than the fact the wheel is centered like HappyTrails2U2 pointed out, it isn't much different than the dollies used by double and triple trailers on commercial tractor/trailer rigs. Just the idea that a third dollied trailer can be behind a second dollied trailer, all hooked to a fifth wheel trailer, lends insight as to how stable they can be.
Not only does the camper dolly support tongue weight, but theoretically offers stability not possible by any other TT hitch, and performance equal to a fifth wheel, which dollies basically are.
In the future this could be a viable way to tow with very moderate lightweight tow vehicles, as was used in the Long, Long Trailer movie.
I have seen a picture, on the net, of a powered dolly that would assist an underpowered vehicle to control a rather large camper, perhaps someday a mini-SUV like a hybrid Ford Escape. Imagine getting 30 plus mpg to work all week and then towing your 31 foot TT with the same vehicle on week-ends.
Like commercial truck doubles/triples and trains, trailer brakes will likely someday provide the primary stopping power for our campers.
It would be interesting to talk to a current owner of such a hitch.
Food for thought.
Wes
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Wes Tausend
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12/21/09 09:43pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: What vehicle to tow?
...in order to get a vehicle we can tow behind the MH.
We have looked at two (2) vehicles, which we are considering. The first vehicle is a 2006 GMC Envoy 4X4 or a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4X4.
Which...I believe most people that tow will agree that towing with all 4 wheels down is the desired method. Towing on a trailer or dolly has very minimal appeal, but of value when several vehicles are involved. We note you have picked two 4x4 vehicles. Is that because you need off road ability? How serious? There are many front wheel drive that do fairly well in out of the way places. I would be looking for a vehicle that gets great gas mileage to justify the small penalty of towing. One of the above posters "ron.dittmer" tows a small convertible that probably gets close to 30mpg. There are so many choices depending on what you hope to gain by towing. Check out Dinghy Guide on the Motorhome Magazine website for minimal hassle towing.
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Gene in NE
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12/10/09 07:04pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Towing a Vehicle
As suggested do a Search on this subject and you will find lots of suggestions. I have towed on a dolly, enclosed car trailer and now 4 down and there are Pros and Cons to all. I started with a dolly as our Toyota RAV4 could not be towed 4 down. I did this for 5 years and never had any problems. I use my enclosed car trailer for my 63 Pontiac Grand Prix when I travel to car shows, again there are advantages, as it provides a portable garage for my car when at site. We purchased a 2004 Honda Pilot approved for towing 4 down and after spending approx. $1800+ (some of the items were used and I purchased at a lower price then new) have this option now. Yes is offers advantages, but price is not one of them. You have to decide what is best for you and your wallet.
I have never found a problem parking my car trailer or my dolly in my travels. I have a receiver on our RAV to move the dolly to our campsite, so no manhandling. In my case I like the options to move/take any vehicle I want with me.
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Nomadac
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12/08/09 10:44am |
Beginning RVing
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