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RE: Backing with dinghy connected
I tried it once, when several cars blocked me in at a restaurant.
Never again.
I managed to get far enough back to turn and get out of the parking lot, but that was the first and last time I ever tried to back up with a toad connected.
The big "plus" about towing four down is the ease of hookup and unhook, it has been said. MUCH easier than putting a car on a dolly or on a trailer! If it is so easy, why back the rig up, just unhook, move, and reconnect. It is simple and easy, right?
Why?? What went wrong?All I know is he refuses to tow four down anymore. He tows on a trailer now.
Almost right. In State, four down. Long trips, trailer.
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mowermech
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03/17/10 06:55am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Backing with dinghy connected
I tried it once, when several cars blocked me in at a restaurant.
Never again.
I managed to get far enough back to turn and get out of the parking lot, but that was the first and last time I ever tried to back up with a toad connected.
The big "plus" about towing four down is the ease of hookup and unhook, it has been said. MUCH easier than putting a car on a dolly or on a trailer! If it is so easy, why back the rig up, just unhook, move, and reconnect. It is simple and easy, right?
Why?? What went wrong?
After about 3 or 4 feet, the wheels of the Jeep slammed over against the stop in a full left turn.
That was enough of a verification of the warnings for me, I will NOT try it again. IMO, it is much better to take the time to unhook, reposition, and hook up. The 10 minutes that would take are much better than risking damage.
Just my opinion, anybody else is free to do it THEIR way!
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mowermech
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03/17/10 06:53am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Backing with dinghy connected
I tried it once, when several cars blocked me in at a restaurant.
Never again.
I managed to get far enough back to turn and get out of the parking lot, but that was the first and last time I ever tried to back up with a toad connected.
The big "plus" about towing four down is the ease of hookup and unhook, it has been said. MUCH easier than putting a car on a dolly or on a trailer! If it is so easy, why back the rig up, just unhook, move, and reconnect. It is simple and easy, right?
Why?? What went wrong?All I know is he refuses to tow four down anymore. He tows on a trailer now.
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wny_pat
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03/16/10 09:03pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Backing with dinghy connected
I tried it once, when several cars blocked me in at a restaurant.
Never again.
I managed to get far enough back to turn and get out of the parking lot, but that was the first and last time I ever tried to back up with a toad connected.
The big "plus" about towing four down is the ease of hookup and unhook, it has been said. MUCH easier than putting a car on a dolly or on a trailer! If it is so easy, why back the rig up, just unhook, move, and reconnect. It is simple and easy, right?
Why?? What went wrong?
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Gau 8
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03/16/10 08:00pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Backing with dinghy connected
I tried it once, when several cars blocked me in at a restaurant.
Never again.
I managed to get far enough back to turn and get out of the parking lot, but that was the first and last time I ever tried to back up with a toad connected.
The big "plus" about towing four down is the ease of hookup and unhook, it has been said. MUCH easier than putting a car on a dolly or on a trailer! If it is so easy, why back the rig up, just unhook, move, and reconnect. It is simple and easy, right?
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mowermech
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03/15/10 10:27pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Family of 6: Which TV to buy?
Hey Bryan,
That's good to hear coming from you. I've posted our decision on a couple other message boards and people are really ignorant about what this device is. Someone (an RV dealer) just told me that I will be towing two trailers and it won't be legal in some states.
YET, this was one of my first questions when I called the company. They said it's legal in all states as it is classified as a "drop axle." Not a dolly. Not a trailer.
Anyway, I'm really impressed with the device on paper and am eager to get it on the road. I wish there were more people with 'em who are sharing their experiences. (I noticed the "Mr. Trailer" over at www.mrtrailer.com uses one to haul around his horses.)
I'll definitely share my experience with this board.
By the way, Bryan, TWO Master's degrees? I'm impressed!
-Melanie
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RVFamily6
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03/15/10 05:58pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Tow Dolly is this the best way? Pros AND Cons
I towed our 96 RAV4 for 5 years without any problems. I installed a trailer receiver/ball on the RAV4 to tow the dolly to our campsite or move around. I could load and install all tire straps/safety chains in less then 10 min. and never had a problem storing the dolly at any of our campsites. Costs is the least for a dolly vs. buying and installing all of the equipment necessary for towing 4 down. Be sure you get a dolly with either surge brakes or electric brakes so you have breakaway protection. I never had to kneel on the ground to connect my safety chains or tire straps. Good luck in your choice.
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Nomadac
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03/15/10 10:31am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow Dolly is this the best way? Pros AND Cons
Used a dolly for about 5 years (no real problems) untill obtaining a dinghy that could be towed 4 down. Hook-up time and trouble is nearly the same. Neither towing method is a problem when it's not raining and not really cold, and, both are a pain in the cold or rain. We turned the dolly over to our son who uses it when not using his full trailer. Pls 4giv anee miss-spellins.
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BaldyD1
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03/15/10 09:25am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Tow Dolly is this the best way? Pros AND Cons
IMO, there is no "best" way. Each of the three possible methods has advantages and disadvantages. In any case, you should FIRST determine if your vehicle can be towed without modification!
Four down: Can be expensive. In fact, depending on what you buy, it can be the MOST expensive. Or, it can be the cheapest method.
Dolly: Can be used with almost any front wheel drive vehicle. Many rear wheel drive vehicles can not be dolly towed without modification (the same modification will be required for towing four down). Many four wheel drive and All wheel Drive vehicles should not be dolly towed.
Trailer: ANY vehicle, up to the size/weight limits of the trailer, can be loaded up and hauled. NO vehicle modifications required.
Of course, with a dolly and a trailer, you have this extra piece of equipment to deal with. Some people find that to be a problem, some don't.
It is your choice.
Have fun.
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mowermech
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03/15/10 06:44am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Options for towing vehicle with Motorhome
I will probably never go away from using a dolly.
I'm not paying to upgrade my vehicle for 4-down towing, since I already have the dolly.
I wouldn't consider using a trailer since I'd have to rent extra storage space to store the trailer. Most of the tongue/neck of the dolly stashes away under the motorhome when I back over it. I can go back all the way to the fender of the dolly tires if I want to, so it's not taking all that much more room.
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dieharder
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03/11/10 12:54pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Options for towing vehicle with Motorhome
As it happens I have a friend near me (about 10 feet away) who drives a Toyota Tacoma He told me the options
Dolly.. The pick up is rear wheel drive so you need to tow it backwards
Full Trailer: Ok, that's always an option
4-Down: Drive Shaft Disconnect from Remco Towing (or a lube pump but I like the Disconnect better)
With the disconnect the odometer does not increment. the transmiossion does not turn (you put it in park) and .. Well. it's a trailer.. If some idiot pulls the tow pins hops in fires it up and hits the gas.. He goes to jail fast (The truck, however, does not move since the drive shaft is disconnected)
Same as my Lumina (Which has an axle lock)
Now, info on the options
4-down using most of the major tow bars the tow bar "Stores" either on the hitch adapter on the motor home or on the towed (I like the kind that stow on the motor home better, Looks) You need not pull up exactly to the tow bar if you are a few inches off you can still hook up, or a few degrees, I've hooked up at some serious angles) And you only add about 50 pounds tops to your combined vehicle weight (it costs money to tow more pounds, plus there are weight limits on a sticker somewhere)
Dolly, You add a lot more weight, plus you have to find a place to park IT when you are parked
Trailer.. Still more weight.. Advantage trailer.. You can back up with a trailer (You can not with the other options) Provided, that is, you know how to back up a trailer (I do, but frankly I'd rather not with a 38 foot gasser motor home)
So I'd go to RemcoTowing and see if they have a Drive Shaft Disconnect for the truck.
Or, Disconnect v/s Lube pump.
I have read posts by folks who had a lube pump fail and no alarm
Drive shaft disconnects are, from what I can see, a type of technology (Spline clutch) that should basically never fail.. Though the push/pull cable can rust up bind and fail but it's cheap and easily replaced. plus there is an "Override" method if it happens.
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wa8yxm
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03/11/10 10:28am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Options for towing vehicle with Motorhome
A good trailer well set up and load balanced tows like a breeze and has less rolling resistance than towing 4 down or even with a dolly and will deliver better fuel economy. Just our humble opinion, but I would not tow any other way.
You bring up some very good points, but please explain how in the world towing on a trailer has less rolling resistance and better fuel economy than towing four down. If you put your car on a trailer, you are towing the weight of the car AND the trailer- at least 1000-1500 extra pounds. You will have MORE rolling resistance and burn MORE fuel. Probably not a significant amount more of either, but certainly not less.
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rjstractor
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03/11/10 09:33am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Options for towing vehicle with Motorhome
go to www.remcotowing.com. Most automatic Toyota don't take to towing 4 down without modification (disconnecting drive shaft) or removal of driveshaft. If it is a manual transmission you can tow as is. Head to thier site to read specific info on your truck. We had a disconnecting driveshaft on our Chevy S-10. It works well if installation is perfect, it not -- it's a bear. It can be a hassle to disconnect and reconnect but after you get the hang of it...not so bad. Ours has held up for 8 years.
Road Master or Blue OX can set you up with a baseplate & tow bar. There are several brake systems to check out including a surge type brake which actually works well for lighter vehicles.
You can dolly the truck if it is a manual tranmission but if it's an automatic, in some cases it is the same deal as if it is towed 4 down - disconnect or remove driveshaft.
A trailer to haul the truck is also an option.
You will also need to run power for the lights.
Depending on which option you choose it will cost no less than about $1000. to set up your truck to tow, dolly or trailer.
It really depends on what your travel lifestyle will be. It is sometimes difficult to store a trailer or tow dolly at RV parks. 4 down is the easiest arrangement.
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sowego
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03/11/10 08:24am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Options for towing vehicle with Motorhome
We prefer to tow our cars on a 4 wheel trailer that has either surge or electric brakes. There are many reasons that we would rather tow 4 wheels up as we call it. There is absolutely no wear on any part of the car or the truck on the trailer. There is no expensive braking system to purchase and hook up and disconnect all the time. Just roll the car off the trailer and you are ready to go. With a little practice you can back up a trailer even on the longest coach. The trailer adds to storage space. When we travel for 6 months of the year the Subaru on the trailer carries stuff, usually the set up stuff like the ground cover, awning straps and tie down stakes, chairs, and BBQ as well as my handi capped scooter. We also have a big tool box out of my pick up when I sold it across the front of the trailer and the bike rack is attached to the front of the tool box. All of the storage in and under the coach are now for general living stuff. We have trailerd for nearly 100,000 miles with several vehicles and have had zero trailer problems. Also when we trade cars there is no set up cost on the new car, just drive it up onto the trailer and strap it down. Just our opinion, but a good trailer can be purchased for about $3,000; about the cost that one poster suggested the cost of an auxiliary braking system and a tow bar. It also means that we can buy the car that we want rather than restricted to a vehicle that can be towed either 4 or 2 down. A good trailer well set up and load balanced tows like a breeze and has less rolling resistance than towing 4 down or even with a dolly and will deliver better fuel economy. Just our humble opinion, but I would not tow any other way.
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geezer34nh
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03/11/10 07:48am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Is it Towed or Toad?
If you're asking because you just want to know, that's cool.
However, if you're asking (as you say) to be "technically correct" in order to avoid flaming, there are a couple of things you (as a new member) should know about this forum:
First, no one in this forum (at least to my knowledge) has ever been flamed for using the words "towed" and "toad" interchangeably. The fact that you (as you intimated) believe this flaming to be possible leads me to the conclusion that either you've visited some very hostile forums or you didn't do your research about this forum ... or maybe both.
Secondly, only a very small number of people here (with a lot of time to spare, it would seem) are preoccupied with labels. In this small minority, there seems to be much wailing and gnashing of teeth over whether we (as fulltimers) live in a "motorhome", a "motorcoach", or (simply) an "RV". This same group has also originated threads wherein they seek to define the TYPE of fulltimers in the world (yes, that's actually true, believe it or not!).
As to your post, we "tow" a vehicle behind our coach. As noted by a previous respondent, that vehicle is "towed" via it's Four wheels Rolling On the Ground (i.e., "frog", which is referred to as a "toad" to more closely correlate to {and rhyme with} the manner in which it travels - being "towed").
This cute little play on words also serves to distinguish those of us towing "four down" (which is yet another variation of "toad") from those of use using a tow dolly or trailer.
ps: If you truly seek to be "technically correct", you may wish to know that truck campers generally (but not always) do NOT tow another vehicle.
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Skip and Norine
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03/06/10 06:40am |
Class A Motorhomes
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toads AND dollies AND bars... oh my! (re ford focus)
Hello everyone.
I'm new to RV's but not new to forums. This is my first post.
I'll write up an introductions once I've sorted out a few things (and get my lies straight!). Please bear with me until then. One of the main things I need to sort out is this towing issue.
I am absolutely certain that my basic questions have been answered at some point but my (admittedly minimal) searching hasn't found it (a few posts are sorta on point, but...) and I gotta say the groaningly slow pagination doesn't encourage me to do more of that.
While I'm on that tech aspect of things let me make sure I'm real well welcomed by mentioning just how wonderful VBulletin is.
Anyway, here are my questions:
1) Dolly or tow bar? and 2) Odometer?
1: I've been warned that despite what Ford says about my 5sp '06 Focus that NO FWD car should be pulled with a tow bar. That even without the possible damage of a pot hole hiccup that the wear on CV's and the transmission is too much to accept vs the cost of buying new (and cheap!) rear tires sooner.
2: Does anyone know how to disengage the odo for trailer miles?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
BPR
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InPursuit
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03/02/10 06:55pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: New to Dingy Towing
Keep in mind, many of the class C's I've seen can only tow 3500, again need to check the hitch and chassis capacities. but in terms of dingy towing, u have several options, depending on the toad. Some prefer the 4 down method, but not all toads can do this (and typically the more expensive method to setup, but usually the fastest method to connect/disconnect). Some like the dolly method, again, not all can do this (no mods to the toad needed but adds weight). Others put it on a flatbed trailer (again no mods needed, but even adds more weight compared to a dolly, and really the only option that allows you to backup).
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coloradodave
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02/22/10 12:00pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Newbie Truck Camper w/ Cummins Dually Questions
Your mileage is all related to weight, if the TC you get is comparable to the trailer you can expect better mileage or the same IMHO.
Actually, my experience has not shown that. I have perhaps 100k mi towing trailers of various sorts, as well as carrying weight inside vehicles, and my conclusion is that shape and wind resistance is at least as important as weight.
A couple of examples. One of my tow vehicles (an E-350 Powerstroke van) gets about 20mpg empty at 60mph. When towing as 3500 pound car on a tow-dolly (low aerodynamic profile) I get about 19mpg (that's over maybe 10,000mi of towing), but when I tow an EMPTY 24ft enclosed cargo (car hauler) trailer weighing the SAME 3500 pounds empty, I get 15.5mpg. Now, put a 3500 pound car INSIDE that trailer (weight now 7000 pounds, double the empty weight!), and I get 15mpg, only a 0.5mpg loss over empty.
I used to tow a 32ft enclosed cargo trailer (about 4500 pounds empty) w/ the Powerstroke, and EMPTY I've been slowed to 55mph in headwinds, getting only 14-15mpg empty in any case. But with a total trailer weight of 12,500 pounds (3X the empty weight), my mileage dropped to only 11-12mpg, or about 3mpg less than with an empty trailer. Even in mountainous terrain (crossing the Rockies or the Alleghenies), and spending a LOT of time in the lower gears grinding up hills, I STILL got 11-12mpg, though I was traveling much slower (the loss of fuel economy in lower gears evidently balanced the reduced drag of the lower speed).
In these cases, the mileage went down MUCH MORE with wind resistance (that didn't change when interior weight was added) than with weight.
When you put the weight INSIDE the tow vehicle, the effect is even more noticeable. I've had 2500 pounds inside both my E-350, and my Sprinter vans, and in BOTH cases I lost negligible mileage over tens of thousands of miles compared to the same vehicles empty. Naturally, in mountainous country, you WILL lose a bit more with interior weight, but much less than one would think.
Admittedly, none of these examples were my Dodge Cummins, nor were they with truck campers, but I have to think the results would be somewhat similar.
The average tuck camper is worse than a brick aerodynamically given that the sleeping cab on most looks like they would trap air between the windshield and the midpoint of most TC cabs, which is why I asked for opinions and real-world experiences of actual users of these devices.
Does it make sense that a friend with "my" truck (a clone) should get 15mpg towing a 33ft 5th wheel weighing over 10,000 pounds while many of you only get 15mpg with a 3500 pound truck camper? Not based on weight, and looking at the 5th wheel, not based on aerodynamic drag, either, given that the profile of the 5th is MUCH higher than the truck camper, but possibly in a wind tunnel, the 5th DOES have less aerodynamic drag, though I doubt anyone's tried that, though the mpg figures here would tend to bear that out.
Bob
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bobinyelm
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02/21/10 09:54pm |
Truck Campers
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Towing with Hitch Extenders w/ Long TCs
I note that when using long truck campers (longer than bed-length), manufacturers recommend converting to a HD Class V hitch (2 1/2" square receiver rather than 2" square),
(See: HITCH as an example)
then using a long hitch extender, or draw-bar (almost 4ft long when using an 11ft-6" camper on a 8ft bed). (See: EXTENDER as an example)
I haven't found any reference to whether one "really" should use a WDH with such an extender, or if it's effective when used with one, even if it's technically allowed.
And of course, such an extender gives the trailer more "leverage" to jack the tow vehicle around in wind and such sway-wise. Also, any "play" or "flex" in the joints or the square tubing or receiver would seem to be magnified in its effect on the truck. I see it reduces the tow capacity to about 6000 pounds.
I do have a Hensley Arrow hitch, which pretty much eliminates sway, but it is a WDH, so would depend upon it being effective w/ the extension, and it would be useless flat towing, or dolly-towing vehicles.
I would be using a 1T dually as a tow vehicle, so the extra stability of the DRW would help, but I would like to hear any real-world experiences or feedback towing trailers of 6000 pounds (about the weight of a loaded, enclosed cargo trailer I have), or flat-towed cars behind a long-bed dually w/ an 11ft camper on it.
The alternative would be sticking with the shortest track camper that would have the amenities (as short as bed-length) desired to minimize the length of, or completely eliminate the need for, an extension.
Thanks-
Bob
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bobinyelm
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02/21/10 04:01pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Newie What or how to tow a vehicle
If you have only 2 people to consider and plan to stay on paved roads, then a car like we had been towing was great fun, extremely easy to hook-n-tow, and light weight too. We could unhook and drive off in 45 seconds. Hook-up was 3 minutes.
It was a 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, a two seat convertible, seen in-tow here. Being under 2200 pounds, we got by without secondary braking. I will miss towing it for it's ease and simplicity, and also for it's great touring characteristics.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3969743630_1f73a10488_o.jpg height=400
We recently bought a 2006 Jeep Liberty 4x4 which is "Trail Rated", for my wife's around town car and also for towing, to be more adventurous with primative roads when on vacation. I am re-using our old tow bar, and just ordered a tow bar bracket for the Liberty. But it is 1600 pounds heavier than the MR2 which will require secondary braking. Like the MR2, it is a very stubby vehicle so towing it shouldn't be bad. I do not have pictures of it yet.
We considered a Jeep CJ7/Wrangler, but it was just too rough for use as a daily driver for my wife. The Liberty is not much bigger, also rated for off-roading, yet it has all the comforts of most other SUVs. We paid $12,000 last December for our 2006 Liberty with every option (sun roof too) and 27,000 miles.
One thing for sure, I would not want a tow dolly or trailer. That would take the fun out of my RVing experience.
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ron.dittmer
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02/15/10 10:17am |
Class C Motorhomes
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