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Date Posted |
Forum
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RE: So confused about towing
You need to decide whether you are going to tow four wheels on the ground (Flat Towing) or use either a Tow Dolly or a Trailer. Each increases your choices for a Toad.
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Kanata
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10/21/09 07:19am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: ignorant about towing
In all likelyhood you will need a class 3 or 4 hitch. Class three should be strong enough. Didn't your M/H come with a hitch already mounted? If so all you need is the draw bar and hitch ball (usually a 2" ball). Next you can decide whether to tow flat, with a tow dolly or with a trailer (the heaviest solution and your M/H may not be able to handle a trailer with a car on it weight wise). So probably the tow flat or tow dolly. Next questions is can your car be towed flat? You can check your owners manual for that information. If you have a front wheel drive car you can use a tow dolly. probably the least expensive way to start. However, towing flat is the easiest to do from a hooking up and unhooking standpoint.
Answer these questions and then you can start to price out the most logical choice.
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vfrmarc
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10/06/09 08:33pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: towing
4-down (Flat tow) easiest hook up, lightest tow (no trailer) and favored by many.. DISADVANTAGE.. A few cars can not be towed this way, and many need "Modification" (Either addition of lubrication pump or some way to disconnect drive shaft or one axle) Mine included. You can not back up
Dolly, Fairly easy to store, but harder to hook up and in my case would put me over hitch weight limit. You should not back up. And you have to store this thing..
Full trailer, Open) YOU CAN BACK UP, much more to store, heavier, other disadvantages simular to dolly. NEED NOT put a light kit on the car though.
Full trailer ENCLOSED.. Protects the car, kind of like towing a garage. Still more weight, I've never used one so I don't know how you get out of the car after loading it.
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wa8yxm
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10/04/09 06:05pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: towing
Depends on the vehicle you want to tow. If the vehicle can be towed with all four wheels or flat towing on the ground without having modifications made to the vehicle like a transmission lube pump or driveshaft disconnect then I belive that is the preferred method. With the dolly or trailer comes the hassle of parking the dolly or trailer when you get to the campground unless you can get a pull-through, then overall length may be a factor with a full car trailer.
I've read lot's of posts both good and bad about towing with a dolly. I was considering it but after reading about the constant checking of straps, retightening after traveling in rain, the alignment that's required for the vehicle on the dolly, the getting down on your knees in the mud to hookup, I decided the best thing for me will be to trade in one of our vehicles for a Vue, CR-V or Jeep Liberty.
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randco
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10/04/09 07:40am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Towing with a Tow Dolly for the first Time
Hi,
Be really careful when getting fuel. I struck a pole going out of a gas station the first time I fueled up with my new tow dolly.
Make sure that you end up in the center of the tow dolly. I got some scratches from the tow dolly fenders on one side of my Winstar van. And I ended up wearing the inside tire on the left front, possibly from driving on the ramp? IDK.
I also counted the number of steps, so I did not skip one once. I think it was 7 steps. One for each strap, one for the pin that allows the ramps to tilt back, one for the drivers side and passenger side safety chain to the car to trailer, one for the lights to the tow vehicle to the RV. One step was to make sure the lock was in place on the trailer hitch ball lever.
I put diodes in the rear lights of my van. Then I hooked up a wire from the RV to the van, went through the van to the back, removed both lenses, figured out a way to get the wires from the back of the van into the light housing. Then cut the wire to the brake light bulb (not the running light wire) and then inserted the diode. It has two inputs and one output that goes to the light bulb. The first input is from the van brake light, the second is from the RV brake / turn signal light wire. Then the red brake light will flash with the RV lights, and turn on with the brake lights.
I put diodes in my other tow vehicles too.
For braking, I used a cruise control motor, with it's cable pulling the brake pedal to the floor, providing brakes to the towed vehicle. I used a vacuum line from my RV engine, and used a few check valves and 12 volt vacuum switch to activate the vacuum to the cruise control motor when the RV brake pedal is pushed.
I did not like towing the van with the tow dolly. It was always a bit of a pain to store the dolly at the campsite, and backing up more than 3" is impossible. Now I tow a Ford Edge. I was thinking about the Taurus X, with the same 6 speed automatic, it can be flat towed too, but is heavier.
Good Luck!
Fred.
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Golden_HVAC
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10/03/09 01:16am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Tow vehicle AND trailer search refined AND revised
I have not towed with the SUV's you are looking at but I have towed the weight you are looking at with V6 powered SUV's.
1998 GMC Sonoma 4.3L V6 with 3.42 axle, Z85 and tow option.
Towed a 1000-1200lbs jetski trailer got 17mpg with it doing 70mph ( the trailer has P tires on it)
Towed a 1996 Nissan Altima on a U-haul tow dolly 4000lbs, this was the most I towed with this truck. MPG unkwon. It towed it a 65MPH just fine IMHO, it had just enough power left to speed up on a big hill, I would tow 4000+ again if I still had the truck.
1997 GMC Jimmy 4.3L V6, 3.42 axle(small one) towed the same jetski trailer as above, 17MPG at 70-75MPH. That was all it towed.
1998 GMC Safari Van 4.3L V6, 3.73 axle, towed the same jetski trailer as above, 17MPG at 70-75MPH, towed a heavy flat bed with a golf cart on it, weight unknow, MPG unknow, but it towed fine to me.
2002 Chevy Trailblazer 4.2L I6, 3.73 axle. Air bags. towed the same jetski trailer as above, 19MPG at 70-75MPH, towed a U-haul 6x12 in-closed trailer, Empty weight 1,800 lbs, per u-haul. weight inside unknow, MPG unknow, short trip to the dump, towed it fine. Towed a Carson trailer over the wheel twin axle trailer called ATV2, weights 1560lbs, it has brake's on both axles.
At 65MPH with 3500lbs on it so its 4060lbs total, 9MPG + or -. This trailer is very high off the ground, even my best friends F350 6.0L CC 4x4 DRW can feel it back there, not power wise but wind wise from under it and from the ramp gate . I think the Trailblazer needs a 4.10 and a aftermarket re-flash of it computer to get that torque management out of there, it would tow better I would think.
2003 Kia Sorento 3.5L V6, 4.67 axle.air bags. Towed the same jetski trailer as above, 18MPG at 70-75MPH. Ive towed at its limit, 3500lbs (I have a 5000lbs hitch on for over kill) towed the same Carson Trailer as above, with 3500+lbs total trailer weight with it.
65MPH, MPG was 8 to 10, it would slow down to 50MPHish on I10 out to Phoenix. Two Waverunners, one SeaDoo GTI SE 130, total wet weight (that's with gas)881LBS. One Yamaha VX, total wet weight 839LBS. Four 5gal jugs 170LBS, plus another 75+lbs on the trailer thats 1965LBS in ski's and gas. The trailer 600lbs, GVWR of 2990.
Total trailer weight of 2565LBS. Thats on top of 5 people in the car and Ice chest, chairs stuff like that in the back. 50-65MPH to Laughlin Nevada from Chandler AZ, 14MPG and about 29-31PSI in the air bags.
Both the Trailblazer and Sorento need the airbag's, they will sag with almost every trailer on them but the single jetski trailer.
I would think the only mod you need is airbags, but everything else look's good to me.
I know not what your looking for, but its the best I have.
I hope this helps
DaCarmack
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DaCarmack
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08/01/09 07:09pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Stoping at scales in B.C Canada
Ok you got me curious. Class A (and C) registered as a passenger vehicle (as all Motorhomes in BC are) does NOT need to stop. If you are towing a TT or 5ER or have a TC on your 1TON (which are registered by GVWR) and you're over 5500KG (12000#) you DO need to stop.
so us in this forum are safe, the TT and 5ER guys need to stop.
I just got off the phone with a Ministry Compliance Officer (they guy who does the inspections) and the local weight scales supervisor (Port Mann East for those local).
Speaking on behalf of BC, Canada, driveby is correct.
Here is a trailer towing FAQ that's produced by the commercial vehicle enforcementr unit (CVSE). These are the guys that run the scales and do roadside vehicle inspections etc.
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVSE/references_publications/trailer_towing_info_sheet.pdf
With Class A, B, and C RVs there is no requirement to pull into a scale.
If you're towing a utility trialer, tow dolly, or flat towing you are not required to pull into a scale.
If you're towing a trailer that weighs more than 5,500kg (12,100lb) you are required to pull into the scale.
This part - is for BC residents only...
For BC residents trailers that have commercial plates (instead of the smaller utility trailer plate) you are required to ensure the licensed GVW of your tow vehicle includes the weight of the tow vehicle, the trailer, and the contents of the trailer. So in my case, I have an enclosed car trailer. It has a commercial trailer plate (same size as a normal car plate - not the smaller utility trailer size). The liscensed GVW on my truck needs to be 8045kg (3500kg for the truck, 1920kg for the empty trailer, plus 2625kg for the vehicle in the trailer). If my GVW on the truck is less than that I will get an overweight ticket. An overweight ticket will set you back $115 plus $11.50 per 100kg or part thereof in excess.
Just to be clear - you cannot exceed the GVWR, the GAWR (axle weights) or other legal limits. That will also get you overweight tickets.
The ticket for bypassing a scale is $115
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JeepBus
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07/10/09 01:41pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Hond CR_V
CRV, can only be towed 4 wheels down or 4 wheels UP. like on a tow wrecker deck. It says DO Not tow on two wheels. To get a better reading on this matter, look in the owners manual index, under two headings, #1 Towing in a emergency and #2 Towing behind a Motorhome. Go to those pages and you can read it word for word.
So now your problem is how to get the dolly home and also the CRV at the same time, is that what I am reading?
So maybe you can rent a flat bed trailer that the CRV and the Tow dolly can both fit and tow the two of them home. To flat tow the CRV 4 wheels down will cost you a minimum of $500.00 to $600.00 and probably more for tow bars, lighting, ect, so the rental fee of a trailer might be in line. Good luck
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othertonka
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07/09/09 04:59pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Flat tow or trailer?
When I used to flat tow, not having brakes was the issue. After nearly being pushed off a cliff by the weight of the towed vehicle, I decided to go with a trailer. No one I knew in the 4X4 community used the dollies - the advantage of a trailer to haul your junk home was already mentioned.
However, if you're not in the habit of breaking parts to the point that a dolly w/brakes wouldn't work for you, they sure take up less space than a full-on trailer.
If you tow something like a Sami that weighs what my trailer weighs empty, then plain flat is the ticket. A 3500 lb Jeep probably would be OK until you get onto curvy roads with elevation change, then I feel the need for brakes.
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DesertDave100
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06/14/09 03:52pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Flat tow or trailer?
I haven't heard it mentioned yet, but one advantage of a trailer is that you can back up. You shouldn't back up with a dolly or flat towing.
I don't think that would be enough of a disadvantage for me, and I'd go with the flat tow if you have a vehicle you can do that with.
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Matthew_B
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06/13/09 11:47pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Flat tow or trailer?
I've towed with a trailer and also flat towed. I pefer the flat towing. They both have there advantages, I like the fact that when I arrive at my destination I don't have to find a place to park the trailer. Same goes for home, I'm not taking up room in my drive way. I do take my tie down in case I break somthing. I would rent a trailer to get home. What every you plan to do, good luck and have lots of fun.I have the same thoughts. Years ago, I pulled a trailer with my Sandrail and other toys. Now I have the Zuki, and I have thousands of miles flat towing. The previous owner did the same, for years. If it broke on the road, I would rent a trailer or probably a tow dolly.
Wayne
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Reddog1
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06/13/09 07:58pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Flat tow or trailer?
You can go with a Ready Brute tow bar with built in surge brakes for about $750. Mine works great. A Demco baseplate for the Wrangler was under $200 if I remember.
I used a dolly for a few years and the main thing I didn't like about it is the same reaon I wouldn't like a trailer; dealing with it once you got there. Sometimes there was no room for it. Sometimes no pull throughs so for a one night stay I would have to unload, drive the rv to the site, unhook, stow the dolly, then reverse the steps in the AM.
Now if you go to the same place or just want to use it a few times per year or you can use the trailer for other things eg a tractor, then maybe.
I like flat towing the best. I can hook-unhook in a few minutes.
Another disadvantage to dolly/trailer is it tracks wider than the motorhome. It will clip gas pumps, curbs and culverts.. at least with the trailer you could back up. The 4 down tracks inside the footprint of the RV; if I can drive the RV through the hole the toad isn't going to hit.
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Big Katuna
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06/13/09 03:22pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Towing - Dollie or all 4 wheels down comparisons
You will find some swear by 4 down and some by the dolly. We have used a Demco SS dolly since 2003 and have considered going 4 down, but always decided it may be perhaps a little easier but it was not flexible like the dolly. Here were some of our considerations:
Let me respond to a few of your comments from the point of view of one who has towed four down, but not with a dolly.
First off, I think your comment that I highlighted is a fair summary - four down can be easier, dolly can be more flexible.
1. Tires and front ends - Wear out the more expensive front tires on the car or wear out the cheaper tires on the dolly?
May be a valid point. On the other hand, for those with four wheel drive, like me, that is actually a negative. With 4 wheel drive, you want all the tires to wear down at the same rate. If different tire wear rates are significant enough to favor the dolly, then they are significant enough to affect four wheel drive. If the tires on one axle are worn more then the others, they will spin a little faster while driving, and the different relative speeds over time can wear and strain the 4x4 system. When replacing tires on a 4x4, it's usually best to replace all four at once. As a corollary, it's better that they wear at the same rate. If dolly towing, one should rotate their tires more frequently than normal. If 4x4 towing, this is not an issue, and normal rotation schedules should be sufficient.
3. Adds more weight to the whole GCWR. - OK, granted, but we cannot tell it is back there with the Demco.
Extra weight isn't important to you, but might be to someone else.
4. Where to leave it at the campground. KarKaddy 460SS folds to only 64 inches behind or beside coach.
And the tow bar folds to about 6 inches. That's almost 5 feet different. Sometimes that's not an issue, sometimes it is.
5. Harder to connect/disconnect car. (especially in the rain) - Five min hook up or disconnect. After watching a few hook and unhook 4 down, I know that is not always smooth either. Sometimes mine is much easier.
I don't doubt that sometimes you can run into a problem with a tow bar and it takes longer, just as sometimes you can run into a problem with a dolly and that takes longer. On average, I think a tow bar is usually a faster connect/disconnect than a dolly, especially when using an auxiliary braking system that does not have to be installed and removed each time. Maybe the time savings is important to someone, maybe not.
6. More to store when you get home? Again - Folds up to 64 inch depth.
With the tow bar, either leave it on the MH, or take it off and hang it on the wall -- only takes a couple inches, again a savings of 5 feet. And it's much lighter, can easily be carried in your arms.
7. If you turn too sharp you can damage your car from the dolly's fenders hitting the body. - Never had to turn that sharp, and your 4 down toad can do the same thing. In reality, it sits closer to the MH than the body of the dolly.
Closer is better, I would think, as it lessens your overall length. If properly set up, there should be no interference between MH and toad. With tow bars there are no fenders to potentially strike the toad in a sharp turn.
8. Very expensive to buy. (if you get a good one.) - Yep -- about $3600. But consider, brake buddy, tow bar, light kit, trans pump and you are close to the same price for flat tow. Plus, every time you change vehicles you have do do part of that all over again. Not so with the dolly.
A full tow bar setup is also expensive, especially when you have to pay someone to install the modifications. And your last point is the biggest difference between the systems. If you want to tow a variety of vehicles depending on your mood, or if you often trade vehicles (like every year or two) or you have a lease where you can't make modifications, then you want to go with a dolly or a trailer. If you only tow one vehicle, and you plan to hold onto it for a while, and you want the most convenience, go with four down.
Seems to me there are strength and weaknesses in both methods.
Yes there are. Everybody has different needs and selection criteria, and everyone must make their own decision. There is no one size fits all solution -- if there was, we would all be doing the same thing and there would be point to this discussion.
One last point you didn't mention - traveling without the toad for a portion of the trip. For example, for an upcoming trip, we're going to a dog show with first-come first-served RV parking. We want to get there early to get a good spot. But DW is working late that day. The solution is that I will go in the morning and stake out a spot, she will drive down that evening in the toad, and we will tow the toad back at the end of the show. That's not an issue with a tow bar, as it is folded up on the back of the MH, or stowed in the back of the toad. But with a tow dolly there are often issues pulling it with no toad attached -- they tend to bounce around a lot. Some people have good success by significantly lowering the tire pressures, making them soft and less likely to bounce. But then you have to inflate them again before loading up the toad the next time. This isn't often a concern, but might be if you routinely meet at the campground after work on Friday, and then travel home together on Sunday. (I've read many posts from people where this is their normal mode of operation.)
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ShapeShifter
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05/21/09 01:07pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: HAVE A LAUGH AT MY EXPENSE
Responding to the base plate comments, I was reading the install instructions for Blue Ox equipment. I appreciate the offer for pictures but I already have invested the money in my tow dolly. Fixed up my lighting situation too. I fabricated a pigtail to adapt my 4-pin round outlet to my trailer's 4-flat plug. They sell an adapter of a slightly different size, which is why I had my problems the other day. Go figure, they look the same but different diameters.
As for the 4 wheel drive / All wheel drive vehicles. Towing this type of vehicle on a dolly depends on the manufacturer. If I owned a 2008 Jeep Liberty 4x4 then all I would have to do is place the transfer case in neutral and drive away. Unfortunately I drive the 4x2 model and the drive shaft has to come out. One item that I like is that it bolts in front & rear. The flange at the transmission end stays in, one less leak to worry about I suppose. I'll probably still put a bungee cord on it so it doesn't get lost.
I will deal with the extra item of installing / removing the shaft for now and if I ever get tired of it then I'll opt to install the tow bar. Again, I mentioned it before but it is my wife's car and any extra items hanging off the front are not cool with her. This is why I was looking at one of the Blue Ox style base plates. Part of the fixture was removable for a lower profile look when not towing.
As for a tow trailer; too much bulk for me. I have enough to worry about finding cheap storage for my RV + dolly. A car trailer would just add to things. A car trailer adds more tongue load, the possibility of more sway, etc. I think all three methods of pulling around a toad have their pros & cons.
-Mike
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mdruhl7212
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05/15/09 11:36pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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HAVE A LAUGH AT MY EXPENSE
After much thought and consideration of opinions received, I went with a tow dolly for my wife's 2008 Jeep Liberty. I bought my first Class A last week and I've been pretty excited about it. Soooooo:
I received my tow dolly and immediately set out to get the correct ball (2"), 6" dropped receiver hardware, locking hitch pin, etc. I put the wife's car on it and didn't get the tires all the way against the front angle iron. I cinched the wheel straps tightly but I don't think I positioned the cross-wheel strap down the center of the tire very well. I put the extra safety strap around the sway bar and cinched it a bit. Away I went. Oops, forgot to mention that I had to buy a 4-pin-round to 4-pin-flat adapter that didn't fit well. The 4-pin-round adapter seemed a bit too big. Go figure. Being the genius that I am I figured brute force would do it. So off I went for a short 5 mile trip from my house to the mall. I took the route through town, 30mph and under. I was almost at the mall when a few vehicles honked at me to tell me my wheel straps were loose. I arrived at a red light with a long cycle, threw it in park and ran back to cinch down the straps. Oops again, the right side strap was completely off! Guess the engineer types that designed the trailer thought out that extra safety strap. Ensured my 2008 Jeep Liberty stayed put. Cinched down the wheel straps, made a mental note that I was an idiot and headed back to the RV. Remember I forced that adapter into my 4 pin plug? Not well enough. Blew the brake light fuse (I probably created a poor connection by forcing the adapter in, which in turn killed the brake lights, 4 way hazards and the all important TRANSMISSION INTERLOCK. I sat at a traffic light for almost 1 1/2 hours unable to shift out of park and unable to signal fellow motorists with my hazards. Feel free to laugh anytime here. I am a DIY and recall the fuse location during my walk through. What I forgot was that there were TWO fuse locations. About an hour + into waiting for roadside assistance, the RV dealership called me back to help me troubleshoot. Replaced the fuse and life goes on. I feel about 4" tall now. Oh well. Rookie mistake. I didn't have these problems when I was a TV + TT guy. Should be a good laugh for all because of the safe guards with extra straps, great police to handle traffic control and nice dealership folks to get me on my way. Lesson learned....although I suppose there are easier ways to learn it :)
My wife jokes that we almost camped on Broadway, the Street that we were stuck on :) Times like this remind me of what a fellow Navy friend of mine (long time Californian as well) says, "they're not giving you the finger, they're telling you your number one."
-Mike
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mdruhl7212
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05/13/09 11:34pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Oh, nooo - can this be true?
With regard to Ford or Workhorse, they do not "require" anything. They might suggest it (cover their corporate butts)...but it is the STATES that require or don't require (and the "required" weight limitations vary from state to state). Check yours.
5 grand for a Brake Buddy? Run.
You're a victim of trying to put a square block into a round hole. Adadpting your Montero to be towed 4 down....or even towed on a trailer might cost so much that you're better off buying another car to tow. MUST it be a SUV type? If not, check out the Chevy HHR. GM seems to have the most 4 down-towable vehicles WITH automatic transmissions...Ford has a few, but the towing modifications (if needed) are, IMO somewhat goofy...but not expensive. Stay away from "all-wheel" drive cars...they are NEVER 4-flat towable. Not even with a dolly. Then, it's full trailer-time. $$$. G'luck!
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jerseyjim
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05/09/09 05:04am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Dingy, dolly, full trailer???????????????????????????
We used a tow dolly when we were part timers and still had our Honda Accord. We went the tow dolly route primarily because we knew we would be replacing the Accord within 5 years and didn't want to spend the money to have it set up for flat towing. The dolly worked fine for us in good weather and when there was plenty of room in the campground. The pain was trying to work with the tie downs after a day of driving in the rain or having to hook up in the rain. Sometimes we had to tow the dolly around the campground to park it in another area when the campsite wasn't large enough for the RV and the dolly. If you decide to go with a dolly, suggest putting a hitch on your toad even if it is only for moving the dolly around.
Much more convenient now that we are full timers and flat towing. Never used a trailer but would think that could be nice too particularly if you have enough tow capacity or another reason to own a trailer.
By the way, we are both retired Chiefs too. Dave 33 years and Kathy 23 years. Do you know about the military campgrounds website?
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2chiefsRus
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05/07/09 07:56pm |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Opinion on towing - 4 down or tow dolly?
As 2chiefsRus said, there are a lot of factors to consider. I have used a dolly and now use a flat bed trailer. Have never used a tow bar for four down towing as nothing that I have will tow four down and I do not want to purchase another vehicle just to be able to tow four down or to go to the expense of converting one that I now have. Also, I like to be able to take what ever vehicle fits where I am going, either the pickup, PT Cruiser or the Camry Hybrid. It all depends on what we will be doing along the way and the terrain where we will be stopping. Your own particular circumstances will help make the decision for you. Not one method fits all people. My dolly worked fine for me for several years.
Badeye
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Badeye
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04/01/09 11:18am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Bring the golf cart along
Triple towing, is not legal in all states. This limits you to either a tow dolly designed to carry a golf cart between coach and towed, or load both cart and auto onto a flat trailer. I have seen such a tow dolly. The advantage to loading both onto a trailer is less wear on towed drivetrain, and you can back up the trailer. Negative, area to store trailer when parked.
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Ray,IN
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03/28/09 09:24pm |
Towing
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