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RE: side rad versus rear rad
that is a good link Wolf.. I agree with the easier access,, but after doing a bunch of research, and really common sense, I dont beleive that the side rad will out cool a rear rad.. just dosent make sense that it would. That being said, I am less worried about the motorhome that we are looking at, it is a Entegra Allure. I like almost everything else about it. (the only thing I am not sure about is if I am happy with it only haveing a 400 ISL engine with the MH3000 tranny. We tow quite heavy often, and while our present mh handles it fine, it is only a 40' (( we are well over the 10k rating that the mh is supposed to handle)) )
First off let me say I have never owned a rear radiator as both of our DPs have been side radiator coaches. That said I have worked on many with rear radiators and although they are a little more difficult to get to some of the items none of them, side or rear mount, are what I would call easy access.
I don't think I would let the radiator placement be the major determining factor when purchasing a coach. I would look at your intended usage, powerplant and floorplan as the major factors. Also another reason for the side radiators is the radiator size. Not so much which cools better but on a larger coach they usually have a larger engine/trans combination and therefore require more cooling system capacity as well as surface area of the radiator to expell the heat generated from the engine. With a side radiator they can build a physically larger radiator without the confines of the rear frame rail width and mounting options.
I beleive 400 hp is about the tipping point where they could be either rear or side mounted. On a rear radiator coach one of the best modifications in a pre 08 rig is to lower the crankcase ventilation (slobber tube) tube below the frame rails to prevent the oil vapors from collecting on the radiator and then attracting dirt and debris which impairs the heat transfer and efficiency of the radiator. Fleetguard also makes a kit which catches the oil vapor and then when the oil condenses it returns the oil to the engine crankcase via the oil pan. These kits are a little spendy but work well.
On a side note you mentioned your concerns about the performance of the 400 ISL in the size coach you are looking at. I am very pleased with the performance of my coach with the 400 ISL for a comparison. It is a 40' and weighs in with the coach ready to travel at just over 36k pounds. It is ALWAYS towing either my 4500 pound Jeep GC or my 26' Haulmark Edge trailer loaded at just over 10k pounds. It performs well and pulls any mountain pass I can throw at including Burgess Jct. from Sherdon to Cody Wyoming, Teton Pass out of Jackson Hole Wyoming and the Northeast entrance to Yellowstone from Red Lodge. I would love to have more power as I have never had a vehicle that has "enough" power but I cannot complain about its performance.
If I were to have a coach that weighed much more than mine I would want to step up to at least the Cummins ISM or CAT C-15 in a few year older coach.
Good luck with your purchase.
Mike.
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zmotorsports
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08/26/11 07:59am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: side rad versus rear rad
If you extend the slobber tube the rear rad stays much cleaner and alleviates much of the dirty radiator problems.
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Doug and Cassi Glass
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08/26/11 06:28am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Diesel Pusher Radiator Cleaning advice needed
I do have a question though, someone said on here have my crank case breater tube extended past the fan ? Is this my slobber tube where the blow by comes out ? It is almost extended to the ground now but im not sure how to route it behind the fan because it is almost 4 feet inward from the back of the motorhome in the middle. I will ask CAT or Cummins service about doing this for me but I thought being close to the ground with it was sufficient but im assuming not ?
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Commerce
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08/21/11 07:39am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: preventive maintance on diesel
OP, is it a 04 or a 06? How much history came with it when you bought it? Did you take 209? I love Taylor Park. OH,,, preventive maintance...
Is there a rubber hose (slobber tube) on the crankcase vent? X2 on Dawn. I would replace the serpentine belt (if orginal) while the engine is cold and save the old belt. I would carry the tools necessary to change this belt. A pair of vice grips on a 1/2" rachet will make it long enough to release the tensioner.
Not to confuse, but I am not in the annual oil change camp but I am in the oil sampling camp which will let you safely go 10,000+ miles before changing. Send off a $25 oilbsample after one year and let the results determin wheter to change or not. Sorry FordSDguy, but other than Blackstone labs and doing it yourself, what does any of that have to do with a C7? Algae in diesel is way overblown as it's very rare. You will not get enough condensation over night to be a problem but I would have a full tank while is storage. I do not use any additives for my fuel and I've burned hundred of thousands of gallons. For the small amount you will use the cost is so small and to keep the "it's a big problem" off my back, additives will not hurt anything other than your wallet. That said, I do carry two spare Primary fuel filters (one secondary) and when I cannot go up a small hill at 70 because of a decrease in power I'll change the Primary fuel filter... Not once a year, not every XXX miles but changing them on a Cummins is easier than on a Cat because you put them on dry and they are easy to prime on a Cummins. I would carry spare radiator hoses but would not put them on until you decide to change the cooling system fluid plus if it happens on the road you have plenty of water on board.
OK, a question for Brett Wolfe. Since the C7 does not have cylinder liners, does the OP need to worry about testing for the correct amount of SCA?
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Ivylog
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08/21/11 06:58am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Diesel Pusher Radiator Cleaning advice needed
I purchased our rear radiator MH used and the damage had pretty much been done. The slobber tube hadn't been extended and the engine ran hot. Had the radiator pulled and the turbo air cooler replaced and the slobber tube extended below the radiator.
Since that time, I just pressure wash from the rear about twice a year. Engine continues to run cool ever since (about 7 years now).
Yes the fins can be bent by a strong pressure wash but I'm careful and make sure the wand is at a perfect right angle to the radiator and I've never bent a single fin. But I suggest that one do exercise due care regardless of how you wash out the exterior of the radiator.
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hershey
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08/19/11 02:13pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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Diesel Pusher Radiator Cleaning advice needed
I have a 2004 Tiffin Phaeton with the CAT 330 and rear radiator. It has not run hot per se but over I-8 in California when it was cold it got to running about 218 at the top and it was recently suggested in another forum about cleaning my radiator. I looked up in there from the inside of the motorhome and it does look like some buildup on there not in the middle but on the sides. Someone said wash it off from the inside of the motorhome outward BUT personally I think washing from the outside of the motorhome inward would get more results because I wouldnt be trying to push all of that through the radiator and it would come off easier spraying back toward the engine. Not to mention the fan blades obscure me from getting a water noddle in there from the inside way.
I am concerned with what type of de-greaser to use because I dont want to harm any engine parts or the radiator so please let me know your suggestions on that. Also I am concened with then i spray water through the radiator getting it on the engine although it is desiged to be outside anyway. I have been told to run the engine and warm it up before doing de-greaser and washing so it heats up and loosens grease. I have a long slobber tube on the engine but this is likely just buildup over time. Cat wants $2,000 to pull the radiator and wash off the fins and i think that is quite alot so thats why I am looking into this. Please give me your thoughts on how you take care of this task on your coaches.
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Commerce
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08/19/11 12:17pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: C7 Cat Breather(Slober) tube relocation
I am confused. Where is the oil mist that used to drip out of the slobber tube coming out now that you did your mod?
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Big Katuna
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08/10/11 06:56am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Pusher diesel air flow
My '94 with 190HP Cummins had the same problem.
After pressure spraying out the intercooler, and radiator, no more problem. You're suppose to wash out the rads in an opposite direction from how the dirt gets in, and I was able to do that with the rear rad, but the intercooler is in a place where I HAD to do it wrong. I could only get to it from under the bed. Seemed to work tho.
I've also added a catch bottle to the slobber tube and decreased the engine oil by one quart.
Make sure the pressure washer is gentle as if it's too strong, it can bend radiator fins. I moderate the pressure at commercial washes by not getting the wand to close. And I spray the rads with Simple Green an hour before washing.
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Jim@HiTek
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07/25/11 04:54pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Our DP Trip Mileage!
Cooling system is current & clean including the rad fins. Slobber tube is extended. It was just HOT & LONG grades. Just managed the RPMs & watched the gauge and was pleased how quickly it cooled down. I once pulled over at a view site on a grade that was also a location for selling Indians goods. Wanted to let the better 3/4s out to shop but gave me a opportunity to see what would happen if I pulled over on a grade. The cooling system cooled in minutes compared to a gas rig that will heat up further if you stop the airflow coming thu the front grill. I was please to know if we had to we could just pull over to manage the cooling system if we had too.
rocmoc n AZ/Mexico
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rocmoc
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07/18/11 06:27pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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R&R Alternator
Well on the last trip to FL, had issues eratic charging and pulsating headlights and the like. Got around to checking headlight grounds, good, switchs good so moved on to the charging system.I had a LN 160 amp built in ajustable regulator, so from thier website did all the trouble shooting, but still had voltage from 11.1 to 15.6,even after trying to adjust.
So ordered the new one, this one lasted 11 yrs. so why change brands,and installed today on my RR Endeavor. Not as bad as I thought it would be, other than leg cramps sitting on top of the motor. Now I have a constant 14.2 at the alt and all is good.
Cleaned the rad again as well, not too awful dirty(moved the slobber tube years ago) and am ready for our road trip to the west coast and back in a few weeks!
Life is good, now where is that Advil;)
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ole trucker
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06/29/11 02:56pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Dirty Toad
No it won't "burn off" it will likely blow out the slobber tube.
Jim
I don't think there is a slobber tube on a 2010. I'm no mechanic, but I think the crankcase ventilation changed with the 2007 emission rules. Call Cummins and ask them for advice, they are very helpful.
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Mike and Trish
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06/24/11 10:08am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Dirty Toad
No it won't "burn off" it will likely blow out the slobber tube.
Jim
Thanks Jim,
Is there anything I should do, or will the overfilled oil eventually level off and quit blowing out the slobber tube and coating the toad?
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z3roadster
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06/23/11 08:59am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: Dirty Toad
No it won't "burn off" it will likely blow out the slobber tube.
Jim
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jauguston
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06/23/11 08:56am |
Dinghy Towing
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RE: warning light on Cummings 330
With a rear radiator.
The only way to clean the CAC good is from the engine side.
That is where all the oil, dirt and grime is.
Usually on Freightliner chassis the CAC & Radiator are back to back.
Also you may need a slobber tube extension put on.
Once you get to the CAC have a flashlight to see all the clogged fins.
Most use Simple Green but if it has never been cleaned before.
A couple cans of engine degreaser may be needed.
Correct--with a SANDWICHED COOLING SYSTEM where the CAC is in front (front of coach) the radiator.
But, the OP needs to check his setup, as many of the Roadmaster chassis with rear radiator had STACKED COOLING SYSTEMS where the CAC is above the radiator. Said another way, on a stacked cooling system, the system is only one "layer" thick. These are the only ones that can be effectively cleaned from the back (back of coach).
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wolfe10
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06/22/11 09:00pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: warning light on Cummings 330
With a rear radiator.
The only way to clean the CAC good is from the engine side.
That is where all the oil, dirt and grime is.
Usually on Freightliner chassis the CAC & Radiator are back to back.
Also you may need a slobber tube extension put on.
Once you get to the CAC have a flashlight to see all the clogged fins.
Most use Simple Green but if it has never been cleaned before.
A couple cans of engine degreaser may be needed.
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Triker33
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06/22/11 07:50pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: CAT Blow By Kit
Your engine is amost surely overfilled with oil. CAT engines are furnished to the chassis builders without dipsticks and dipstick tubes. The chassis builders furnish them in my case Freightliner. Umproper length dipsticks is a known issue with 3126 and C-7 CAT engines. The dipstick needs to be calibrated. Mine was such that it took 24 quarts to reach the full mark when the actual capacity is 19 quarts including 2 quarts for the filter. The first time I pulled a mountain pass I completely covered my Samurai with a gallon of oil. We had put about 2000 miles on it since we bought it used but all our driving had been on fairly level roads.
To calibrate the stick drain the oil and refill 14 quarts and mark the stick ADD. Add three more quarts and mark the stick FULL. With a new filter start the engine and run it for several minutes then add two more quarts for a total of 19 quarts. These instructions do NOT apply to engines with the deep cast aluminum pan.
The slobber tube should extend back past the radiator on rear radiator coaches. That blowby kit is not needed.
You will find a lot of discussion about this issue on the catrvclub.org Forum older posts.
Jim
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jauguston
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06/19/11 09:53am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: CAT 330 with 40K on it, Anyone elses look like this?
My 2002 Caterpillar engine still looks like the day a bought it new. Your coach must be from the east coast where they use a lot of salt on the roads. I would get all that stuff scrapped or sand blasted and repaint the pan.
My engine is the 3126-E 330 HP and it does not discharge any oil through the slobber tube. Those engines only hold 19 quarts of oil. Original instructions were for 22 quarts of oil, but a revision was put out by Caterpillar that 22 was too much oil. That Cat engine has the shallow pan.
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RayChez
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06/14/11 06:39pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: 2003 DP Overheating & Slideout inoperable
Thanks folks tor all the input.
My slobber tube extends well below the radiator. The inside of the radiator looked clean when I had the bed off in April. I just crawled underneath to check, but couldn't see with the big fan shroud in the way. I could see the serpentine belt, which drives the fan, and it looks tight. I just had the coolant changed before our 2,000 mile trip in April, and the level is still the same in the reservoir.
I knew about the oil overfilling problem so I made sure my mechanic only put in 19 quarts when he changed the oil In April.
....Doug
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p0oches
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06/14/11 12:41pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: 2003 DP Overheating & Slideout inoperable
Do not know about the slide but I suggest the radiator needs to be cleaned and you may need to check to if the slobber tube is discharging oil which means you may need to 1. increase the length and/or 2 you need to calibrate the dip stick to make sure you are not over filling the oil pan.
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wallynm
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06/14/11 11:34am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: CAT 330 with 40K on it, Anyone elses look like this?
Our coach has 29,000 miles on it and we are the second owner. It has had the oil pan replaced. I found the invoice in some paperwork left in the coach. There is a lot of rust in that area.
If you replace it be sure and recalibrate the dip stick. Fill with 14 quarts of oil and mark the stick ADD. Add three more quarts and mark the stick FULL. Start and run for several minutes then add two more quarts for the filter. Mine was not properly calibrated and had almost 5 quarts too much in it. The first mountain pass we pulled it blew a gallon out of the slobber tube all over the toad--huge mess.
Make sure the slobber tube extends back behind the radiator.
Jim
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jauguston
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06/12/11 10:09am |
Class A Motorhomes
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