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RE: Cat Mechanic says to buy Cummins (!)
I have had no real big issues with my 3126-E Cat engine. So far it has 51K and just getting broke in. Never had any issues with the slobber tube that many complain about, but that was not only a Cat problem, but also a Cummins problem. I have had both Cummins and Cat and the small 5.9 Cummins engine I had threw rods twice. The Cats only issue was a failure of a fuel pump. Cat C7 has more torque then the Cummins 5.9 also. Now if you go bigger then there are the Cummins 400 ISL, but it was also matched by Cat with its C-9 400 hp engines. Both are very good engines and that would be the last thing to worry about. Get a good floor plan, that would be something more important.
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RayChez
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01/04/12 12:05am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: 98 Beaver Patriot 40' Yorktown Diesel
For $40K it's a lot of DP Yes, I used to own one and it was very trouble free. Was never really happy with the stopping power of the disk brakes but the exhaust brake worked very well. The parking brake is on the drive shaft so it lets the MH move some even though it's parked. Do not take too much weight off the rear axle when leveling on a steep hill. The Hurricane hydronic heating was good, but a little temperamental. Would stop working because of air in the system (could never find the leak) but easy enough to bleed the air out. One valve has to be open and the other closed and you reverse the valves for the other season. On a long pull out West it wanted to overheat and this was with the slobber tube and a clean radiator so you have to keep the RPMs up. Handled good and easy to put in long days behind the wheel. Had to turn the exhaust brake off in order to use the cruise... pretty sure there is a cheap mod that solves that problem. Beaver's have the nicest wood work of any DP in their price range.
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Ivylog
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01/01/12 05:26pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Cat Mechanic says to buy Cummins (!)
I have had both the c7 and now a Cummins 400. Love them both. The biggest problem with the C7 was it seemed to require more maintenance such as valve lash. Keeping the radiator/CAC clean to avoid overheating required cleaning it at least once a year (a dirty but inexpensive job). Mine required the rerouting of the slobber tube to avoid plugging the radiator with oil residue. I installed a priming pump to make changing the fuel filters easier but it was not really a necessity. I would not be afraid to purchase another C7.
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bdpreece
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12/28/11 05:01pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Side Radiator Vs Rear.
I'm curious how often one would have to change the belt. If only every ten years then a mechanic can bust his knuckles instead of mine. I lube my chassis but won't change the oil. Lubing it keeps me close to the innards and will spot a problem early. Changing oil is a hassel and messy too.
The side radiators are clearly better, but on more recent models the rear radiators are not over heating and the slobber tube has been designed out of the chassis. It would always be nicer to have the side radiator, but it is not the advantage it use to be when rear radiators were designed much more poorly than they are today.
All that said it is your choice to spend more or not for a side radiator.
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DanTheRVMan
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12/23/11 06:38pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Newmar of Fleetwood
How do you know your friends FL did not have some kind of front end problem?
Go drive the newmar you want and see how it rides. My FL chassis is not a problem since the front end alignment after purchase that FL did for free. I would buy another FL although I would not be opposed to a spartan in the future.
When they increased the size of the radiator and got rid of the slobber tube to meet EPA requirements I think the current FL chassis got rid of a lot of their past problems.
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DanTheRVMan
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12/21/11 04:11am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: water running from under refridgerator
Really just a guessing game. could be ice maker or the slobber tube (not very likely) or it could be a leak in plumbing running under the fridge.
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skipnchar
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12/19/11 08:42pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: clogged Radiator
Wow, over 60K miles and I've only cleaned my rad and CAC once. Perhaps the plastic bottle I have attached to the slobber tube helps minimize the amount of fine oil that can attach to the rads? Thus reducing the amount of dust/dirt/grime that sticks?
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Jim@HiTek
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12/02/11 11:17pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: 300HP CAT running hot
Rear radiators need regular cleaning. They need to be forcefully flushed with water after a soak with a good detergent. I spray a strong solution of Spic and Span with a weed sprayer from both front and back. Then flush with a 1500 psi electric pressure washer. A hose with a nozzle if you don't have access to a pressure washer. Repeat until the flush water is running clean onto the ground. Pay special attention to the area outside of the fan circle in the corners. Most of the dirt will be in the CAC that is closest to the fan. The radiator is behind the CAC (intercooler).
If it has not been done add a hose to the slobber tube and route it below and behind the radiator.
Jim
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jauguston
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11/24/11 07:30pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: 300HP CAT running hot
The CAT is not known to run hot. I am guessing his rad is dirty. Yes, rear rads are more susceptible to oil blowby (did he route is slobber tube past the rad?) which then picks up dirt. I have never had a problem but I clean mine from both sides annually. He could also try downshifting a gear which ups the RPMs, which moves more water.
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Big Katuna
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11/24/11 05:22pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Monaco/Newmar for full time
I do not own a Monaco or a Newmar. Both have built very good coaches.
I do have a bias toward a side radiator setup. The bias is because I have learned to service my engine and make some repairs to things like water pumps and alternators etc.
The side radiator provides much better access to the engine from the ground.
I believe the Windsor does have a side radiator as it was a higher line coach for Monaco, but the Diplomat does not. I think the HR Scepter was a sister ship to the Windsor in some years.
I also think a side radiator is better in the year range you are looking at as there used to be something called a slobber tube that would cause a lot of******from the engine to get on a rear radiator.
The newer engine designs do not have a slobber tube as they are a lot cleaner. My Red has a rear radiator and it is still very clean after almost 20k miles. Frieghtliner also used to undersize the radiator so that is another reason to look for side radiators in earlier years.
The side radiator is still probably a marginally better design today for access and other reasons, but with rear radiators now properly sized and slobber tubes eliminated I do not see it as significant of a make or break issue as others would state for earlier years.
BTW, you picked two good brands but I probably would expand to others that also have a good support structure available.
Good Luck
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DanTheRVMan
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11/21/11 04:47am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Slobber tube on a Cat 330
Could this cause black spray on the hood of the toad?
Yes, and also suck it up into the radiator. I had my slobber tube rerouted to keep my radiator cleaner..
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GHOST1750
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11/19/11 09:39pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Slobber tube on a Cat 330
Do you know how to calibrate the dipstick?
I have a cat 3126E and I put 22 Quarts in it and it reads over full. The book states 22 Quarts(Shallow Pan)
P.S. My slobber tube smokes to although it dosent blow out oil. Maybe a drop on the tube after a long trip.
Brett, when calibrating the 19qt C7 dipstick, how many quarts in do you put in to mark the dipstick for "Add"?
Thanks
Ron
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lanerd
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11/19/11 02:36pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: clogged Radiator
I purchased our MH used and shortly afterwards I suffered the same fate as you. Pulled the radiator, cleaned and re-route of the slobber tube and alls well. I do stop in a car wash that is large enough for the MH from time to time and give it a good pressure wash.
I'm careful with the direction of the spray and have not bent a fin in 7 years of fulltiming. I also spray from the rear of the MH forward which is backwards to the consensus of this forum. Just makes more sense to me to reverse the flow of the dirt to remove it. Bottom line, I never, never worry about overheating on any grade in any temperature.
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hershey
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11/15/11 08:49am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Ford F53 Winnebago Adventurer Nightmares
I had a 97 F-53. I agree the 90's F53's were not the best chassis ever built. It was fine when used as a U-Haul box truck but at 20K pounds it was just too overloaded. I too, learned the hard way about the marginal brakes, sticky calipers, bad fuel pump design, broken manifold bolts, air cleaner impossible to change. One of the happiest days in my life was when I traded it on a new DP. I wish, as I am guessing you are wishing, I had researched more and read about the chassis on RV.NET and other forums. If it makes you feel any worse, after 2000, both Ford and GM chassis got much better. The V-10 is a much better engine.
I had lots of trouble finding competent repair houses for the chassis. Most car places won't touch an RV and most RV places are barely adequate in the non coach areas. Totally opposite from DP's. Diesel shops welcome RV's and I have had nothing but positive experiences with them. NOT CHEAP, mind you but competent and fast.
BTW, DP's don't have overheating problems from having rear engines unless the rear rad isn't cleaned as req'd AND-OR the user allowed the slobber tube to spew oil mist on the rad. My engine temp rarely moves up, even in the mountains.
As far as well built motorhomes, there are some. My recommendation is a well cared for Foretravel at whatever price point you can afford. They are designed to be worked on. They have a unibody design, the tanks are readily removable, you can call the factory and talk to a knowledgable tech and they are very well built.
And all roofs can leak. They have to be maintained. Take it to a place that does Sealtech testing ($150) to show you where it is leaking.
Hang in there. Maybe a tree will fall on it!
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Big Katuna
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10/19/11 02:29pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Phaeton with 330 CAT Maintenance
It's interesting that this thread popped up. I spoke with Mark at CAT yesterday about my 3126E on a Freightliner chassis. I had general questions and he had the answers and a few tips. I don't have a Phaeton but my coach has a rear radiator and I have access to the top of the engine from a hatch in the floor of the bedroom.
Mark told me that 99% of the 3126E's have a single water/fuel filter separator. Mine is easy to get to, it's located behind the louvered door access to the radiator. He also told me the proper way to tighten the water/fuel filter separator. Screw it on until the rubber gasket touches the housing, then turn it another 3/4 of a turn. He also told me that if I changed the filter to pour diesel fuel into the small holes of the new filter and fill the filter up. (I already knew about that from this forum) He also told me that Freightliner did not request that CAT install manual pump to prime the fuel system.
The oil filter is easy enough to get to but I don't want the hassle of getting rid of 22 qts of oil.
My unit has a sealed bearing in the radiator fan hub. Some units have a zerk fitting and require grease periodically. Seems that this could be a hassle.
He told me about the radiator getting dirty which would create overheating. (again I had read numerous threads about this on this forum) He told me about the slobber tube (breather) and its misty discharge. I told him that I had an extension on the tube that discharged behind the radiator. He said the extension would help a lot but the rear radiator should still be cleaned about every six months. To clean the radiator he told me to use a garden hose with no more than 30 psi and spray the water from the outside rear access. He told me to flush it until the water being discharged was clear. I cleaned my radiator when I got my coach at the end of January this year. I traveled this summer from Florida to NY towing a 4,200 toad through the Smokies and never had a problem with overheating.
If you want to call CAT, their phone number is 877-777-3126 and they are available 24/7. They are going to ask you for the serial number of your engine, so get it before you call them. If you don't know your serial number call you chassis manufacturer, give them you coach's VIN number and they can give you the engine serial number.
So far, I have changed the fuel/water filter, changed the air filter and cleaned the radiator from the outside.
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randco
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09/27/11 04:37am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Maiden voyage, Itasca D/P w/ Motorcycle and towing Jeep
Gents,
Thanks all for the nice comments. It was a bit work getting it to this point but, well worth it. So far, like stated, this CAT engine is a good runner. But, for the life of me, it should be illegal for the manufacturer(s) to install an engine that's simply too small. Well, many of you are satisfied with it and I am too for the most part but, on the hills, well.....
Anyway, Ray Chez,
As stated, I'd do it again in a heart beat. The hard part, is finding one of those "Hydralift" units used on the market. I got lucky and the wife found that one on ebay. I got it for way less than half price of a new one. Rare for me. I usually end up paying twice as much as it's worth. If you'd like, send me a PM with an email address and I'll send pics of the install at different phases. I too was concerned about the effects of the lift on, steering, front suspension, wandering because of too much weight shift off the front end, etc. well, all that worrying, was useless. IT WORKS!
As for the cooling, we ran through that desert of Las Vegas, Baker, Barstow, and everything before and after those towns at about 102 - 105 and as long as I wasn't pushing her too bad, the temp was hanging in there just fine. And yes, I too shift her before I let the Allison do the work. It's programmed to be pretty self sufficient but, a little help now and then, just seems to work better. I think that radiator is fairly clean. It's got the slobber tube extension on it and it's out to the side. I'll keep an eye on that situation though. Thanks for the heads up though. Again, thanks to all.
Scott
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FIRE UP
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09/02/11 09:48pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Maiden voyage, Itasca D/P w/ Motorcycle and towing Jeep
I suspect your Horizon weights a bit more than my 36' Journey with the 330 CAT (you got a few more goodies on that rig, I'm sure). We've traveled in the West twice towing a Ford Explorer weighing in at 4,700 lbs and, yes, the 330 CAT is adequate but it doesn't sprint up those long grades. You gotta keep those rpm's up which also helps keep the thing running cooler. When navigating steep grades, I dont let the Allison do the downshifting....I am proactive and manually dowshift to maximize the rpms.
Also, if you've not already done so, you may want to give the radiator/CAC pack a good cleaning. Rear radiator DP's suck a lot of crud from the engine bay and road thru the cooling pack and a good, annual cleaning with Simple Green and clear water is usually necessary to ensure cool running. Also, with the CAT, make sure the slobber tube is extended past the radiator and below the frame rails. The fan will suck that oil vapor into the radiator/CAC and gum things up.
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smlranger
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09/02/11 07:03pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: side rad versus rear rad
that is a good link Wolf.. I agree with the easier access,, but after doing a bunch of research, and really common sense, I dont beleive that the side rad will out cool a rear rad.. just dosent make sense that it would. That being said, I am less worried about the motorhome that we are looking at, it is a Entegra Allure. I like almost everything else about it. (the only thing I am not sure about is if I am happy with it only haveing a 400 ISL engine with the MH3000 tranny. We tow quite heavy often, and while our present mh handles it fine, it is only a 40' (( we are well over the 10k rating that the mh is supposed to handle)) )
First off let me say I have never owned a rear radiator as both of our DPs have been side radiator coaches. That said I have worked on many with rear radiators and although they are a little more difficult to get to some of the items none of them, side or rear mount, are what I would call easy access.
I don't think I would let the radiator placement be the major determining factor when purchasing a coach. I would look at your intended usage, powerplant and floorplan as the major factors. Also another reason for the side radiators is the radiator size. Not so much which cools better but on a larger coach they usually have a larger engine/trans combination and therefore require more cooling system capacity as well as surface area of the radiator to expell the heat generated from the engine. With a side radiator they can build a physically larger radiator without the confines of the rear frame rail width and mounting options.
I beleive 400 hp is about the tipping point where they could be either rear or side mounted. On a rear radiator coach one of the best modifications in a pre 08 rig is to lower the crankcase ventilation (slobber tube) tube below the frame rails to prevent the oil vapors from collecting on the radiator and then attracting dirt and debris which impairs the heat transfer and efficiency of the radiator. Fleetguard also makes a kit which catches the oil vapor and then when the oil condenses it returns the oil to the engine crankcase via the oil pan. These kits are a little spendy but work well.
On a side note you mentioned your concerns about the performance of the 400 ISL in the size coach you are looking at. I am very pleased with the performance of my coach with the 400 ISL for a comparison. It is a 40' and weighs in with the coach ready to travel at just over 36k pounds. It is ALWAYS towing either my 4500 pound Jeep GC or my 26' Haulmark Edge trailer loaded at just over 10k pounds. It performs well and pulls any mountain pass I can throw at including Burgess Jct. from Sherdon to Cody Wyoming, Teton Pass out of Jackson Hole Wyoming and the Northeast entrance to Yellowstone from Red Lodge. I would love to have more power as I have never had a vehicle that has "enough" power but I cannot complain about its performance.
If I were to have a coach that weighed much more than mine I would want to step up to at least the Cummins ISM or CAT C-15 in a few year older coach.
Good luck with your purchase.
Mike.
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zmotorsports
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08/26/11 07:59am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: side rad versus rear rad
If you extend the slobber tube the rear rad stays much cleaner and alleviates much of the dirty radiator problems.
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Doug and Cassi Glass
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08/26/11 06:28am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Diesel Pusher Radiator Cleaning advice needed
I do have a question though, someone said on here have my crank case breater tube extended past the fan ? Is this my slobber tube where the blow by comes out ? It is almost extended to the ground now but im not sure how to route it behind the fan because it is almost 4 feet inward from the back of the motorhome in the middle. I will ask CAT or Cummins service about doing this for me but I thought being close to the ground with it was sufficient but im assuming not ?
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Commerce
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08/21/11 07:39am |
Class A Motorhomes
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