Bluestreak
SF Bay, CA
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Hi-
We’re spec-ing out a new trailer and want to know what folks think about their choice of the solid surface countertops
I've read the posts concerning one poster's problems with the counter top (not Corian, but still solid surface) and the factory trying to fix it in her rig.
Regarding the non-Corian (and not the Formica-like stuff) solid-surface top, does anyone else have any issues with the counter tops in their Cedar Creek? How careful do you really need to be with the sinks? Do cuts really show up white against the dark grey?
Does anyone know what the material actually is?
Finally, is the counter top extension made from the solid surface material useful? In pictures, it looks a little too heavy and bulky to use on a frequent basis….
Tom Boles & Family
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MrIcemaker
Westminster, CO
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Tom,
Even though I don't have a Cedar Creek, let me try to answer your questions:
Solid surface materials are like any other product used to produce countertops - they have their pluses and minuses. The term "Solid Surface" is a pretty broad one, as there are at least 6 major manufacturers of the product, and all of them are made up of different materials. Corian is not the same as Avonite, which is different from Gibralter, which is different from Hy-Max, etc. I would need to know exactly what material you are talking about in order to comment as to what issues you might have with the different materials.
Most of the solid surface materials can be broken down to two different families: an acrylic based or a polyester based product. My personal opinion (based on 20 years of experience doing commercial work in solid surface, and thousands of feet of countertop)is to avoid the acrylic families of solid surface. They fade more easily in direct sunlight, and are much more brittle than the polyester families. My personal favorite to work with is still Corian brand (been around the longest, seem to have their act together, and still stands behind their product).
Sinks: You need to use some caution with your sinks. If you drop a pointed knife into the sink, you can bet money that it will put a chip into it (if it doesn't shatter - more common with acrylic). The beauty of solid surface (and one of the sales tools I use) is that no matter what you do to it, I can fix it so you can't tell it ever happened. They stand up to normal use very well. Laminates have to be replaced, solid surface can usually be repaired.
Cuts into a dark color of solid surface WILL show up as a white line. That is because solid surface is basically PLASTIC - a very tough plastic, that is imbedded with solids. When you scratch the surface, it leaves a while line, regardless of the color (but you can see it easily on darker colors.) Depending on how deep the scratch is, you can easily polish it out - even by hand, but a random orbit sander makes quick work of it with micron paper. Not terribly difficult, but something you wouldn't want to try without a lesson from someone who knows how to do it....
Mark
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UDdriver
Freeland, MI
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My Open Road has the solid surface counter tops with the sink. It was one of the reasons that I bought the unit. I still love the countertops, but I wish the sink was good old stainless steel. What a pain the sink is, it stains very easy. I spend more time on making the sink presentable, since the sink is right there for everyone to see. It's just not my idea of time well spent during my camping excursions.
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Bluestreak
SF Bay, CA
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UDdriver-
What color are your countertops? What color is the sink? What seems to stain it and what do you do about it?
Thanks
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Bluestreak
SF Bay, CA
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Mark-
Thanks for your very through answer.
I managed to find (I think) "solid Surface magazine" on the web and take a look at some articles there. I have a little bit of a background in resins and adhesives, so I think I understand some of the issues.
My question is really, really narrow: The "intermediate" solid-surface countertops in the Cedar Creeks look very good. Both my wife & I would like to get that option if it MAKES SENSE. How ever, they are not Corian (although Corian is offered) and I'd like to find out just what they are. I suspect that since CC does not trumpet the maker, the tops are possibly made by a smaller outfit that may even poor their own material. Warantee issues seem like they could be a problem, and I think it would help down the road to know what the stuff is to make it easier on whoever needs to work on the things...
In the real world, I'm curious: It seems like the ability of the material to stand up to minor cuts and abrasions should depend on the % of filler to resin, as well as the actual filler used. Is this true?
Also, does anybody use epoxy instead of polyester? Better moisture absorbance, tougher, easier to bond to...?
Thanks!
(BTW-how do you like your rig? The company seems very interesting, very quality & customer concious-are they?
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Themisfitking
Southern MD
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I have the solid surface counters in my Cedar Creek. They are tan in color and have had no issues with scratches, cuts, or stains. We have 3 kids and have used the trailer almost every weekend since March plus a 4 week trip to Canada and a 2 week trip down south. My family is anything but gentle with the way they treat the counters (can you say battle tested). Counter extension is very useable and not to heavy or balky. When I was at the factory i inquired about the make up of the counters and was told it was very similar to Corian but a bit thinner in the counter area but not thinner in the sink area. So far I am pleased with this choice. The look gets a lot of compliments as well.
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BlackSilver
East of Heaven, North of Hell
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Our rig isn't a Cedar Creek, so may not be the same material, but it has what the manufacturer calls "Seamless Granite Composite Countertops". I'm sure the "granite" is just a trade name and does not mean stone.
The complete kitchen countertop area, including the sinks and backsplash area is a single molded piece of this material which seems quite durable. The sinks are white and the counter top is colored/grained to resemble muddy-brown stone (granite?). Ours isn't scratched (yet!), but looking at the bottom I see the underlying material is brown colored, so I suspect a scratch of the top surface would not be white, but brown and thus not quite so noticeable.
Hans, KØHB & Colleen, KØCKB
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Lone Eagle
Tremonton, Utah
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I am 60 but believe if I pay attention I will learn something every day. I learned a lot from your post Mrlcemaker. Thanks. Later! Frank
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MrIcemaker
Westminster, CO
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Thanks Frank! I appreciate the comments!
Tom,
I suspect the "no name" brand is probably Hy-Max, a Korean knock-off of Corian. Most of the more "well known" brands tend to hype themselves as being "as good as Corian" - if you get where I am headed.
There are not many companies that actually manufacture solid surface - it is not mixed up like an epoxy or artificial marble - which is just a plastic and quite soft. It is actually extruded, and that is a pretty big piece of equipment. Corian sheets come in 30 and 36" inch widths (depends on color) 1/2" thick and 12' lengths. Thicker areas are just built up out of 1/2" sheets. My wholesale cost on a sheet runs from about $250 for "Class A" - basically white, to over $800 per sheet for class F (looks like granite, has large particulates). The Class A takes 6 seperate steps to make, the class F takes 22 (if memory serves me....I am getting older!) Fusing kits (bulk) are over $100 each, which is what makes Corian so expensive. If the "medium" grade solid surface is indeed Hy-Max, it is not bad stuff. About as hard as Corian, and not nearly as brittle as Avonite.
As a side note, we just finished making a counter with Avonite that is headed to New Jersey (from Colorado) that is over 100 feet long. When it arrived, 2 of the 10 foot long pieces had shattered like glass.....
You need to know the manufacturer of your countertops - I would insist. Even if you have laminate countertops, get the maker and color number. That way, if you ever need more, you don't have to try to match it from the literally tens of thousands of colors available. Trust me, I have to do this all the time, and it is no fun! If something happens to your solid surface counters and they need a repair, if you have the brand and color name, ANYONE certified in solid surface can repair it.
I am afraid I can't comment on the chemical make-up of the products - it is pretty much a guarded secret by the manufacturers. My experience and recommendations comes from having to work with the stuff, and stand behind it when something goes wrong.
AND I LOVE MY RIG! I leave in the morning for Cedar Rapids (one week on a job site), then drive down to Orlando for a week, and then out to Clovis NM. Another 3 weeks out! Too bad it is for work!
(And yes, I am installing over 500 linear feet of Corian in the next 3 weeks.......)
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UDdriver
Freeland, MI
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Tom,
My countertops are a light beige,brown,gray "grainy" look texture. The sink is an off white color. Any water left in the sink tends to discolor it. I use the rubber mats in the bottom and if I forget to take them out, the standing water under them will stain the tubs. Most typical foods that are dark and such, if left for any time will stain it. (Thankfully, I don't drink coffee or tea, I can only imagine what they would do. I try to wash everything immediately, but sometimes, friends will dump stuff in there that I don't catch. Per dealer instruction, I use the scotch brite pads to scrub the sinks clean.
It's not just the Open Road brand that I've found this in. My parents just installed Corian throughout the house and I think their sink is showing signs also. Love the countertops, but as I said before, I'd prefer the Stainless steel sinks with the solid surface.
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