Daniel C.
San Antonio, Tx USA
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Joined: 02/16/2002
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I can remember My uncle towing a 27' Silver Steak to Colorado from 1955 - 1959 from Tulsa Ok. He towed it with a 1953 Ford station wagon with a 101hp 6 cylinder and overdrive 3 speed transmission. He had equalizing and trailer brakes (yes - even then). The trailer must have weighed at least 8K lbs. He was a very cautious man with a genius for math problem solving, and was always confident with that arrangement until he started towing it with a Chevy pickup in 1960. I realize that traffic is heavier, faster, and more trucks are on the road now, but towing at 55 or so and being careful should be fine. Remember that the towed weight compared to the tow vehicle for 18 wheelers is much different also than needing 300+ diesel hp to tow 8-10K lbs. I remember towing my first trailer in 1971 was a heavy 21' trailer behind a 3/4 Ford camper special with a 360 (destroked 390) engine. I got 10 mpg, but didn't go any faster than the author on grades with that setup!
Dan
2006 Lexington 235S; 6.8L Ford E450,
2005 30RLS Outback Sydney Edition,
2007 Jeep Compass
2009 Mini Cooper S
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eightballsidepocket
San Jose, California, USA
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Joined: 09/20/2004
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McDonoughDawg wrote:Only suited for a pop-up comments are just plain dumb. How is that helping the situation?
I totally agree.
All these folks like to say "niceties"  to someone who has towing set-up that is not quite right in their perfect estimation.
I really get tired of all the know-it-alls, that seem to be the perfect RVer's and make, what I consider disrespectful, or unkind remarks to a fellow RVer.
There are kind, and encouraging ways to help, or show a person that they need do some changes with their TV or TT to alleviate a potential safety problem, or whatever, without being "terse".
Statements that intimate that one hopes that this person isn't on the road with that setup are downright mean.
We have a poster here, that's spent some $$ on this setup, and could use some helpful advice, seasoned with respect and kindness. 
So why don't all you perfect RVer's just let us imperfect ones do the helpful advice-posts?
Regards, Eightballsidepocket
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT 4x2 Quad Cab, Cummins, 48RE Tranny, Lg Bed, Line-X Spray-on Bed Liner.
06 T25BS Komfort Trailblazer TT
"If you can't say it in person, it isn't worth saying while hiding behind an anonymous P.C.!"
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Hornet28BHDS
Parker, PA
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Joined: 01/29/2007
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I think it's a nice looking setup! Oh, and that Liberty is one nice little SUV! LIke to have one instead of the 'ol Camry!
2006 Hornet 28BHDS-Bunk House, Dual Slides
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 HD
5.7L Hemi, Factory Towing Package
Reese Brake Controller, WD Hitch and Sway Bar
Life is short, why not spend it in an RV!
SPRING HAS SPRUNG!
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erainwater
Canyon, TX
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Joined: 12/25/2006
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Seems like some people are determining with their eyeballs that the Liberty is way to small a tow vehicle; while this gentleman has proven it to be perfectly adequate when properly set up.
Just some facts:
The Liberty is about 45% of his GCVW. A typical class 7-8 tractor is less than 25% of its GCVW.
The ratio of the Liberty's wheelbase to the overall combined length is greater than that of a typical class 7-8 rig combination.
The Liberty's power-to-weight ratio is also greater than that of a typical class 7-8 rig combination.
Some people will say, "Yeah, but what if he loses his trailer brakes?" By comparison, a Class 8 rig is not designed to safely stop 80,000 GCVW without trailer brakes, so how is a Liberty worse in that regard?
The OP has gone to great lengths to ensure that he has an optimal setup for his combination. Let him enjoy it.
Just my $.02 as a former brake systems engineer with a heavy-duty truck manufacturer.
5'er - 2003 Keystone Cougar 281 EFS
Pup - 1998 Coleman Westlake
TV#1 - 2002 Ford F250SD 4x4 Powerstroke CC "Robert E. Lee"
TV#2 - 1997 Ford F250HD 4x4 Powerstroke SC "Henry"
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chrispitude
Saylorsburg, PA
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Joined: 05/20/2007
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Hi everyone,
First I'd like to thank everyone for their time in responding, and for their concerns about our safety. Although I am new to RVing, I am not a first-time tower. Please be assured that I have put a great deal of time, energy and research into a TV/TT configuration which I feel is safe for myself and my wife. I think I have a setup which is quite unusual in its configuration, and this is why I wanted to share my experiences with my fellow RVers. We all know what we know through what we experience directly and from what we are told. I am simply looking to share my experiences with all of you.
This little Liberty CRD is a heavy beast. Its 4-cylinder diesel engine is significantly heavier than the V6 gasoline motor, and it has the 545RFE 5-speed transmission instead of the 4-speed 42RLE in the gassers. It has heavier duty springs solely due to the extra 300lbs of drivetrain weight. Curb weight for the CRD tends to be around 4500-4700lbs depending on vehicle options and fuel level. It's a front-heavy little critter, with much of the extra weight down low over the steering wheels.
Someone mentioned that there is a lot more to towing than just power, and I completely agree. I like the way it tows and feels and my only real complaint so far has been power up long steep grades. On the gentler grades, I found myself accelerating uphill around slower tractor trailers without dropping out of lockup.
Although the factory towing specifications are the same for the 3.7L gasser and the 2.8L CRD here in the U.S., they are in completely different leagues in terms of real-world towing capability. You will find 3.7L gasser owners on the Jeep forums (JeepForums, LostKJs, JeepKJ) who struggle to tow 4000lbs. You will also find CRD owners who regularly tow at or above their 5000lb limit. The engine/transmission/suspension is different between the 3.7L V6 and the 2.8L CRD, and the reality is that they have substantially different real-world towing capabilities. I am not saying that it's safe as a rule to tow near (or above) a vehicle's factory limit, however...
...speaking of factory limits, here is something I think you folks will find interesting. Click on over to the European Cherokee 2.8L CRD auto webpage and click on "Technical" on the left side, then "Weights & Capacities." This is the exact same vehicle that is sold here, except in Europe it's called a Cherokee instead of a Liberty. The tow rating is 3360kg which translates to 7400lbs. I am not too worried about "hurting" my CRD because I'm a little bit over the U.S. spec.
I am still evaluating this setup. Currently I have the weight distribution set by eye and by feel. I will be taking this to the scale in the next week to get unhitched TV weight, TT weight, tongue weight and axle weights, and to dial in the weight distribution across the TV axles. Once that's correctly balanced, I plan to do some panic stop testing. My concerns aren't so much about the weight as the length, but the Hensley really does an amazing job of sway control, and again I think the deck is tilted in the Liberty's favor due to how close the hitch is to the rear axle. My wife and I agreed that the moment we do not feel safe in this setup, we will park the trailer and look for another tow vehicle. We have only had one outing so far, and to be honest it felt good - better than I expected after the "sticker shock" I experienced when I looked at the actual dry weight sticker of the trailer. The next outing is about four hours away over some hillier terrain. I'll have the ECM tune by then, and I'll be sure to share my experiences with everyone after that trip.
We both really want the upcoming V6 TDI Touareg (7700lbs tow capacity, 369ft-lbs, 28mpg highway!) but it's not available here in the U.S. for another year or two.
- Chris
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Bmach
Spfld, Ma
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Joined: 08/26/2004
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The Liberty also has a cgvw of 10,100#. To many people in here think you need a full size truck in order to tow anything and that is just not true. As for the 3.7 and towing, if the engine or trany gets hurt do to towing and you are within spec as far as towing then guess what, DC will cover it under warranty. Now they even have the lifetime warranty, so that makes it even better.
Let us know how it works after your next trip, thanks for the post.
* This post was
edited 09/24/07 05:31pm by Bmach *
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Roman11
San Diego, California
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Joined: 08/24/2006
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Chris,
Most people on this forum believe if you're pulling anything larger than a pop-up then you need a 3/4 ton or bigger. It does get old and why get the bigger truck if your not pulling every month or you just don't need a large daily driver? A lot of the newer TV are very capable even if most disagree.
As for your combo...only you know if it's OK or not. The only thing I could question is your wheel base. It does seem pretty short when you take into account the TT and TV combined. How does it handle when a Semi goes by or what effect does a cross wind have? You did your research and bought the most capable hitch but is that have enough anti-sway?
Good Luck!
A Family
A Boxer Dog
A Truck, a Trailer, a Hitch, a Brake Controller
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eurohazard
Travis AFB, CA
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Joined: 12/09/2006
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Chris, I think you have a bad a$$ setup! And I mean that in a good way! 
You clearly have done more research than any of the arm-chair quarterbacks here known as "naysayers" or "weight police" at times.
I hope it works well for you. Please let us know how it goes with more miles driven and at different driving conditions.
* This post was
edited 09/24/07 06:53pm by eurohazard *
-2006 Nissan Armada LE 4x4
-2007 Coachmen 19FLB SE
-2007 Regal 1900 w/ 4.3 EFI Volvo
Supercharged wrote:4-in-a-fiver and my statments make the same amount of since.
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FishPOET
La Habra, CA
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Joined: 06/25/2007
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You really should weigh the trailer. I'm guessing your trailer full of gear for a weekend on a scale would be closer to 6000#. Toungue weight should be 720-750#. The KJ has a unibody. In reality your hitch has 6 bolts attached to sheetmetal.
I believe the KJ has a C Clip rear axle? 5 link coil sprung rear suspension? From my limited time reading the Lost KJs forum the consensus is that the KJ has barely enough brakes from the factory to stop itself. None of these features are the best options for towing a long, heavy trailer.
In its stock form, my ZJ had trouble handling a 3000# boat. Not the power...but the tail wagging the dog so to speak. And it had the notoriously bad Jeep brakes as well. I upgraded to Vanco brakes and it made a world of difference.
It is ultimately your choice. Reading your post on Lost KJs you are a bit concerned and well you should be.
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bmanning
Phoenix, AZ
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Joined: 05/22/2005
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OH MY GOD CHRIS!!
Tomorrow morning, first thing, go to the nearest Peterbilt dealer and trade that Liberty on a 379! And not just a single-axle, you'll need a tandem rear to handle that trailer. If you don't, you're going to litter our highways & byways with fiery carnage.
Please warn me if you plan on towing that setup anywhere near Phoenix...I'll stay in bed with the covers over my head until you're well out of my area with that rolling Deathmobile.
You only got away with it on your trip by the grace of God. I'm going to print this thread and march right down to the highway patrol and report you-- you'll be hunted like Bin Laden by the authorities.
And how dare you enjoy yourself and report positive results! Shame, shame, shame on you...
 
* This post was
edited 09/24/07 09:20pm by bmanning *
BManning
Had: 02 F250 7.3tdV8 4x4 ccsb lariat auto deep red - miss it
Have: 02 Land Cruiser 4x4 4.7naV8gas auto white loaded - love it
Soon: the Cruiser goes to the girlfriend, I get another 4x4 crew cab diesel 
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