JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
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Joined: 12/16/2004
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Joe
Good post to bring awareness to those who are not as "into" this as some of us.... And for those who are.
The more we read, the more we learn, the more we post, the better we are from it. The ORF continues to do what it does best, help spread education and knowledge. It makes us think. (Plus some of us really get addicted to this....)
All posts do not apply to everyone, however bits and pieces of a lot of them do.
The more we help educate ourselves about what ever brand WD hitch and TV combination we have, the better we will be from it.
To your "bump" topic, other reasons to be aware of it:
What happens when the brake controller supply fuse blows?
What happens when a TT wiring short on the main feed line occurs?
What happens when you forgot to completely seat the 7 wire plug in TV receptacle?
The brake controller just plane dies?
While any of these events or others like them are not common, and may never come your way, they are not beyond occurring. They can happen on any brand hitch. Knowing your hitch and TV, thinking in advance, what would I do and what do I expect to happen?
Just pick the dry pavement scenario. It's enough. Then line up cars next to you, happening at 50 mph on the highway, then the down hill turn, ect. ect.
If you never knew of "the bump", would it startle you into doing something quick and wrong and then you created a situation. Maybe it's better to experience "the bump" in a safe setting to figure out what your rig will do or not.
Happy camping
John
PS. OK did you type all this in a campground on that new fancy Blackberry???
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)
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crappie_fisherman
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Joined: 08/09/2005
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John,
No there is no way I'd be able to pen all that on my crackberry!
As I was typing my last response...my oldest was sitting next to me...she commented that she couldn't keep up with reading as I was typing too fast for her!
Anyway...THANKS for the added dialog.
Your examples of 'what can happen' are certainly real life scenarios and ones we need to think about BEFORE they happen...
Provoking THOUGHT was my intention with this thread. I've owned my HA since May and have logged 4500 miles since then...I've also read enough HA threads to know that while the 'bump' is made reference to in some discussions...most of the threads are dominated by two camps...HA owners that have experienced the superior sway control the hitch gives and non HA owners who can't see why you should have to spend that much for a hitch.
My post was geared towards HA owners to get them thinking about what they would do if an event as described by my scenarios or what happened to Les or Don or even YOUR scenarios. All of these CAN happen...I will state that not all or any will happen to EVERYONE...but if it happens to YOU (not John but the HA driver)...all I wanted was to possibly have you have thought about that scenario and what you would do...
Being prepared and ready for whatever life has to throw at us and John has added yet some more potentials to think about how we would handle applies to ALL THAT TOW...not just HA owners!!!
joe.
DH, DW, 2 DD's
2005 Excursion V10 w/4.30's
- Hensley Arrow
- Prodigy
- Rear Hellwig
- RAS
- Front hitch
- Bilsteins
- SCT Tuner w/5-Star Tunes
- Aeroforce Gauge
2007 JayFlight 31BHDS (3 women & 2 slides...it helps!  )
Mini & the BEAST
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crappie_fisherman
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Ehammond wrote:
OK, Line up the cars in front of you and let any of the very, very highly unusual events happen and you're in trouble with any hitch because at 50 mph you won't be able to stop.
The point I believe John was trying to make was that there are MANY 'potential' scenarios in which when towing a vehicle is inherently dangerous. Being prepared is our best defense.
While I agree with you that it is likely indepedent of WHICH hitch you have in the case above you are likely 'in-trouble'. I will contend that with a HA and the associated BUMP that will be non-existant with say a DC...a HA owner is likley in MORE TROUBLE than a DC owner.
The DC will likely not jacknife in this situation...but it certainly could. It is the SLAM of the BANG from the HA ALLOWING the stored TT energy to be UNLEASHED and EXERTED to the TV as the TV slows FAST and the TT is STILL moving at its prior to TV slowing rate of travel (i.e. FASTER THAN TV at this INSTANT in time)...that instantaneous 'thump' of the TT is what I'm talking about here.
Now granted with the DC you will likely (but not guaranteed) rear-end the car in front of you due to your elongated stopping distance from the brake controller failure...but it is my opinion with the HA...you will most likely be in a jacknife situation prior to rear-ending the car in front of you and entangling all the traffic surrounding you...in essence in this highly unlikely but POSSIBLE sitation...the HA will possibly cause MORE DAMAGE to those around you.
We are talking about hypothetical situations here...and how to prepare for them...as I said above...MOST will NEVER experience anything like this.
One feature I found I really wanted on my brake controller was to KNOW ahead of hitting my brakes that my connector had come out. Many brake controllers out on the market do NOT have that feature. My Prodigy DOES and that is one reason I like it...a small glance to the controller lets me know I have a connection. The time to know you don't have a connection is NOT when you NEED your TT brakes...now couple that with a HA and the BUMP and things get worse quick.
The down side of towing a TT with a DC and no TT brakes is that you have a longer stopping distance...in some cases you could rear-end someone if you are unfortunate to have that hypothetical situation happen to you.
The down side of towing a TT with a HA and no TT brakes is that you WILL GET A BUMP...how YOU handle that BUMP at 50, 60, 70 mph...is preparation.
joe.
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6MISFITZ
Fort Erie, ON, CANADA
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Joined: 04/15/2003
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I have had a couple of brake issues with our trailer and our Hensley and never felt out of control until this summer's trip to MO. I have turned down our brake controller and tried a hard stop to experience the Bump on purpose and it stopped straight with very little drama but that was not the case on a very rough road shoulder with a simultaneous controller issue.
The bump was enough along with the rough roads and no trailer brakes to overwhelm the traction of the van's rear tires and for the momentum of the trailer to try and pass the van. It was that close and I am sure the people behind the trailer while this happened would agree and thankfully none of them were forum members!
6MISFITZ wrote:
I-69 is certainly NOT one of the smoothest highways in Michigan and was under construction in more than one location but there was one section that was just BRUTAL outside Flint - near the 75 turn off for Pontiac IIRC. You were forced to drive on a barely one lane wide, uneven left paved shoulder while straddling the rumble strips that were not paved over. The vibrations set up by this section of road must have done something to the brake controller because when I needed brakes for slowed traffic ahead, trailer brakes were again absent despite a green light on the controller.
I felt the trailer come forward on the hitch and push to the van right. I let up on the brakes slightly, corrected my steering and even though I was not tailgating, the hole in traffic was now shrinking faster than we were slowing down. I cranked the controller gain, pushed the brakes harder and this time the trailer started pulling the rear of the van hard right (as though it was going to swap ends) and as this happened - I squeezed the trailer brake controller slider to FULL ON and we quickly stopped straight but one lane to the right of the rubber highway cones.....
Again I re-leveled the brake controller - put a small piece of tape on the level wheel - which I gathered had rattled loose from the vibrations caused by the rumble strips and uneven left shoulder. I did not like the idea of van's rear end being pushed around that easily, so I backed off the W/D on the hitch about half a notch on the jacks to add weight to the van's rear axle, tested it with a stop almost at ABS levels and never had another brake or hitch issue for the rest of the trip..... crappie_fisherman wrote: Being prepared is our best defense.
While I agree with you that it is likely indepedent of WHICH hitch you have in the case above you are likely 'in-trouble'. I will contend that with a HA and the associated BUMP that will be non-existant with say a DC...a HA owner is likley in MORE TROUBLE than a DC owner.
joe. Agreed but will amend that paragraph to include our old Equal-i-zer hitch as well.
I have towed this trailer (not willingly) on snow and ice and found I slowed down more with the Hensley than with the EQ, can't tangibly explain why just the feel of it and when I say slowed down more, I was way below the speed limit to begin with. Stopped straight on black ice with both, but feel the friction of the EQ kept better angle control between the two vehicles than the HA.
No one hitch will ever guarantee no accident, so always tow accordingly!
Mike.
Mom, Dad, 4 kids, 2 Camping Dogs
Express 2500 LS (135"WB) 6.0L, 4.10, G80, PYO wheels, HENSLEY & McKesh
--------------------
MISFITZ RACING
MFCC Member
Rallies Attended 4, 7 Un-Rallies
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Ehammond
Alabama
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Joined: 04/21/2002
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JBarca wrote:Joe
What happens when the brake controller supply fuse blows?
What happens when a TT wiring short on the main feed line occurs?
What happens when you forgot to completely seat the 7 wire plug in TV receptacle?
The brake controller just plane dies?
OK, Line up the cars in front of you and let any of the very, very highly unusual events happen and you're in trouble with any hitch because at 50 mph you won't be able to stop.
I've owned the HA for 10 years and many miles. I had a brake controller that wouldn't allow you to have the trailer brakes lead the TV brakes and I had the bump. I bought a Jordan which solved that problem and haven't had a bump since, that was 10 years ago.
2004 33FKDS Present Sunnybrook
2001 30FKS 2nd Sunnybrook
1996 30FBS 1st Sunnybrook
"Wonderful" Hensley Arrow Hitch
Jordan Ultima Brake Control
2001 Ford F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
Words to live by "Don't squat with your spurs on"
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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6MISFITZ wrote:I have towed this trailer (not willingly) on snow and ice and found I slowed down more with the Hensley than with the EQ, can't tangibly explain why just the feel of it and when I say slowed down more, I was way below the speed limit to begin with. Stopped straight on black ice with both, but feel the friction of the EQ kept better angle control between the two vehicles than the HA.
Mike,
I believe you are absolutely correct in feeling that, "the friction of the EQ kept better angle control between the two vehicles than the HA." The EQ generates a large amount of yaw torque which tends to prevent relative yaw between TV and TT. The EQ's torque exists whether the TT is pushing forward on the hitch or pulling rearward on the hitch. The EQ's sway control ability is proactive because the yaw-resisting torque is present even when the TT is aligned directly behind the TV. It works to prevent the TT from moving off center even before it has moved.
The HA is not proactive because it does not produce a yaw-resisting torque when the TT is directly aligned behind the TV. The TT must move "off-center" before the HA can generate a restoring torque. AND, the restoring torque is present only if the TT is pulling rearward against the HA.
If the TT is allowed to push forward against the HA, the HA's linkage will tend to rotate and shift to the left or right. If the TT is pushing forward on the HA, the only thing which prevents the rear of the TT from swinging forward is the lateral force on the TT's tires. In the low-traction road conditions which you described, the lateral force on the tires would have been reduced and there would have been greater tendency for the HA-equipped TT to swing.
Any yaw slack in the HA's receiver/drawbar connection or in the drawbar/pinbox connection or any lateral slack between coupler and ball or any looseness of the struts will increase the danger of jackknife torques being produced if the TT is allowed to push against the HA. The HA's linkage is your friend when the TT is pulling rearward. If the TT is allowed to push forward, the linkage will become a destabilizing connection.
Ron
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crappie_fisherman
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Joined: 08/09/2005
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JBarca wrote:
Yes, Joe you are right. I was not singling out the HA. Hope it did not come across that way.
Point being: Totally understand your rig the best you know how to. If you do not know, spend some time learning. Think to yourself, what would I do if that happened?
By being able to talk about this kind of stuff in an open and constructive way, we get to think about this in advance.
John,
That is the precise reason I typed all those words above...to OPENLY and CONSTRUCTIVELY discuss this topic. The HA presents a unique 'feature' that when I called Hensley I got a 'spin' IMO on how a 'lesser hitch would have...yadda yadda...' Not the open discussion we are having here about the REAL BUMP and the associated BAD things that CAN happen...I've said it above numerous times...it WILL LIKELY NEVER HAPPEN TO YOU...but if it does...wouldn't you want to be prepared???
Look at your example...you 'thought' you had the controller mounted in a way where you could 'simply' depress your manual button...well in the trials you performed after a thought provoking post...you figured out a subtlety in button depression and finger angle (although with you being a previous New Yorker...I would have thought you had figured out FINGER ANGLE long ago! LOL)
Glad you did your test and figured that out under 'controlled' conditions versus when playing in traffic!
JBarca wrote:PS Joe, the Jordan also has a little green light to tell you the 7 wire is plugged in.
My Prodigy has a .C. when connected...I view the C as COMFORT! When NOT connected I get . . (two dots since I run boost) or . (single dot with NO boost) Either of last two conditions (only dots and NO C) tells the operator that the plug is NOT in at a glance.
With the HA I truly feel knowledge of a plug falling or getting yank out in a tight turn is more critical than a traditional ball mounted hitch due to the associated bump and possible bad results...not that not having TT brakes with a DC or Equal-i-zier and NO BRAKES is a treat I'm sure...
Thanks for the interchange in this thread...it adds the type of data I was hoping to discuss...'WHAT-IF' and 'WHAT WOULD YOU DO?'
joe.
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JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
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Joined: 12/16/2004
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crappie_fisherman wrote:Ehammond wrote:
OK, Line up the cars in front of you and let any of the very, very highly unusual events happen and you're in trouble with any hitch because at 50 mph you won't be able to stop.
The point I believe John was trying to make was that there are MANY 'potential' scenarios in which when towing a vehicle is inherently dangerous. Being prepared is our best defense.
joe.
Yes, Joe you are right. I was not singling out the HA. Hope it did not come across that way.
Point being: Totally understand your rig the best you know how to. If you do not know, spend some time learning. Think to yourself, what would I do if that happened?
By being able to talk about this kind of stuff in an open and constructive way, we get to think about this in advance.
Sort of like a post about a month ago when we saw a 2500HD and a Komfort TT rolled over posted on the forum. Danger post We see one of these bad things about every Summer. Well I went out to my truck and said, what if I had to do a panic stop, can I reach the brake controller like instinct?
Well I reached just fine,and instinct kicked into automatic, but the way I had mounted the controller when you hit the manual button in a panic and on an angle, the button locked solid.  OMG!!! It use to look like this. Never again will I mount it like that. You reach fast for that button and jammo, it locks up if you hit it hard on an angle. Tried it then 6 times and it locked 4 of the 6 and would not compress.
So now it looks like this. No time to fiddle and unlock the button when odds are against you. Plus it took me 2 hands to unlock the button.
That post may have saved my rig as I took action before the bad day came I may have needed to use it. And I thought I had that area covered. Guess not.
Know your towing rig and how it reacts. It is your best defense. Does not matter what brand you own.
John
PS Joe, the Jordan also has a little green light to tell you the 7 wire is plugged in.
* This post was
edited 10/01/07 08:02pm by JBarca *
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crappie_fisherman
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Ron Gratz wrote:
Ron
Ron,
Thank you for chiming in...I believe what you describe in the DYNAMICS OF THE BUMP is precisely the type of open discussion I was hoping to get with Sean or the others at Hensley when I called.
Instead I got the 'lesser hitch' spin.
If you look at some of the posts above...they are SENIOR MEMBERS here that have experienced hair raising and probably short cleaning required experiences when the 'bump' appeared. Yet there is a cryptic blurb in the HA manual about brake controller lead. Well look at some of the examples above...the brake controllers WERE SET PROPERLY according to the HA manual!
Your description of how the linkage operates and the conditions it is effective is what my engineering mind enjoys reading to help me PREPARE as I tool down the road at 17,000#'s with the three most important people in my life...
Had I left this alone and gone by my 'answer' from Hensley...I'd be tooling down the road and un-prepared for what could happen.
Would I give up my HA...NO...not as long as I tug a tag along. I do feel the benefits far outweigh the negatives...but there ARE negatives and the answers I got from Hensley personnel lead me to further question this phenom.
How many of the 10,000 HA owners actually understand the dynamics of the bump and what to do if it happens to them?...if they only read the HA manual...I'd say not very prepared...I know I wasn't!
Thanks again for the contributions above!
joe.
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chrispitude
Saylorsburg, PA
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Joined: 05/20/2007
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This is a great thread. I definitely need to get out and try to reproduce the bump under controlled conditions.
- Chris
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