BurbMan
Louisville, KY
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Joined: 09/20/2001
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If I recall, I looked at the Pull-Rite when I bought the HA in '02, and I was going to have to relocate the spare tire somewhere and also do some "minor" exhaust work. That was enough to kill it for me. That was an '01 burb, and the '06 is the same, so same issues unless they redesigned the PullRite.
I can see your point Will, and having lost some shear bolts can see why you would think the 3P is a better design. I guess my perspective is different because I've never had an issue with the shear bolts. Crappie will never have an issue either since he thru-bolted the frame brackets....
KSD makes a good point about ProPride, whether Sean will be able to hang on long enough to make a debt in Hensley market share. Of course, there's no guarantee that Hensley will last either. I suspect that if either went under, the right/design would be sold and stay in production by somebody else.
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ksd
Medina, MN
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Joined: 10/22/2003
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Thanks to everyone who has posted here. This has been an enormously informative thread. I'd like to suggest to the mods that they consider making it a "sticky", either here in towing or in the travel trailer forum.
2008 Salem LA 312QBBS
2006 Suburban 2500 LT 8.1/4.10
BrakeSmart Controller
ProPride 3P hitch
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willald
NC
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Joined: 07/15/2002
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BurbMan wrote:If I recall, I looked at the Pull-Rite when I bought the HA in '02, and I was going to have to relocate the spare tire somewhere and also do some "minor" exhaust work. That was enough to kill it for me. That was an '01 burb, and the '06 is the same, so same issues unless they redesigned the PullRite.
Actually, knowing what I know now, I probably would go with the Pullrite over all of them, if I could only find someone who would install one in place of the OEM receiver on our Excursion (spare tire is not an issue). Almost all shops don't want to touch the receiver on our Excursion, for liability reasons we've talked about before (towing receiver is part of safety package for Excursion, and very tough to remove).
Quote:I can see your point Will, and having lost some shear bolts can see why you would think the 3P is a better design. I guess my perspective is different because I've never had an issue with the shear bolts. Crappie will never have an issue either since he thru-bolted the frame brackets....
Well, I've never had an issue with the shear bolts, either, 'cause like Joe (crappie_fisherman), my frame brackets are bolted on with heavy duty bolts. I saw from day one with the Hensley, that this was only way to go.
Be that as it may, I like the ProPride design better, that does away with those struts, U bolts, etc. Just seems like a cleaner, better way to lock the hitch head in place.
Quote:KSD makes a good point about ProPride, whether Sean will be able to hang on long enough to make a debt in Hensley market share. Of course, there's no guarantee that Hensley will last either. I suspect that if either went under, the right/design would be sold and stay in production by somebody else.
Yep. I really hope that whatever happens, we keep at least two differnet companies making this type hitch. Without that competition, you know what happens.
Will
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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willald wrote:---Hensley distance from ball hitch, to drawbar pinhole: 24" (measured by *me*, on my Hensley yesterday)
Propride distance from ball hitch, to drawbar pinhole: 19 3/4" (measured on Propride owner's hitch)
I've been trying to figure out what was changed in the 3P design to make it 4+ inches shorter as indicated above. With a converging linkage system, shorter is not necessarily better -- especially if the side links have been shortened. A 1/2" reduction in the length of a link will shorten the "projected" distance by about 5".
Scaling of longitudinal dimensions from the Lockhart photos indicates the following:
IF the 3P's ball-to-pinhole distance is 19.75" as reported above, the 3P's side link scales to about 4.5" as compared to the HA's link length which, I believe, is 5.0". Also, the drop bar (the part with the three holes showing) scales to 1.8" thick rather than being 2"x2" stock which I would expect it to be.
Perhaps the 19.75" reported above actually is the distance from the ball to the face of the receiver. If this were the case, the 3P's link length would scale to 5.0" and the thickness of the drop bar would scale to 2.0".
As for comparing 3P dimensions with the dimensions of a specific HA --- it appears there is no fixed length for the various HA hitch bars currently offered. And, Hensley is reported to have offered, at one time, hitch bars which were 1-2" longer to accommodate Enkay mud flaps. And, they reportedly offer a hitch bar which is 6" longer than "standard". So, it appears that, depending on which length of HA hitch bar is being compared, the 3P might be shorter or it might be longer.
I think the main point for this thread is that a couple inches either way is not enough to make any perceivable difference in sway control. If it is true that a converging linkage hitch "completely eliminates" sway, then one design cannot be "better" than another as regards yaw stability. Returning to burbman's comment, I would consider the issue of 3P length versus HA length to belong in the "different" category rather than in the "better" category.
Ron
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Ron Gratz wrote:The Lockhart web page does not show how the yoke’s tail piece fits between the vertical projections of the cross channel. Perhaps a 3P owner can post photos of this detail.
A 3P owner did post some photos on another forum.
The yoke's tail piece, along with the cross channel, can be seen in the third and fourth photos in this post.
The tail piece is the round extension which fits between the two vertical "down tubes". The lateral force exerted by the tail piece on the side of a down tube is what prevents the upper unit from rotating (yawing) relative to the TT's A-Frame.
Ron
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clarkely
SE Pennsylavania
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Ron Gratz wrote:
Scaling of longitudinal dimensions from the Lockhart photos indicates the following:
Ron
You can never Scale that accurately from a photo...........Most Architects and engineers i work with won't even except a fax or email....because it can become disproportionate/out of scale in transmission. This does not happen on any direct raiot to be able to account for.......it is a 2 x 2
That being said........I have a propride and can measure and give you photos of any dimensions you like......Just message me and what you want....
I know you have a lot of good posts on here and ican give you whatever 3 p info you like
I'd Rather be camping!
Sydney Outback 310BHS
2008 2500 Suburban Some Mod Pictures
AirLift WirelessAIR with Firestone RideRite Bags, Pressure Pro System, Tekonsha P3
ProPride 3P, Power Jack
1 Wife, 4 kids & a Dog...Bigger is Better!!
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willald
NC
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clarkely wrote:Ron Gratz wrote:
Scaling of longitudinal dimensions from the Lockhart photos indicates the following:
Ron
You can never Scale that accurately from a photo...........Most Architects and engineers i work with won't even except a fax or email....because it can become disproportionate/out of scale in transmission. This does not happen on any direct raiot to be able to account for.......it is a 2 x 2
That being said........I have a propride and can measure and give you photos of any dimensions you like......Just message me and what you want....
I know you have a lot of good posts on here and ican give you whatever 3 p info you like
Thanks, clarkely, for saying what I was about to.
When you have a minute or two, clarkely, if you can measure the following on your 3P, I think it will help a lot:
1. Re-verify the measurement I mentioned earlier - insert your drawbar into the head of the 3P, and measure from the drawbar pinhole (center), to the center of the TT ball hitch. You should come up with 19 3/4", thats what one other 3P owner got.
2. Measure the length of the two side linkage pieces, center to center. The side links that link the top part of the head, to the bottom half. I don't know if the length of them is different from the Hensley, and am curious to find out.
3. Also, Verify that the drawbar piece itself is 2x2. I think we all know thats what it is, but lets verify it for the one here thats trying to use a photograph to suggest it has shrunk to 1.8" 
Thanks in advance, Clarkely, for your help in clearing this up for us.
Will
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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In December 2007, the following question was posted on another forum:
"Sean, how much overall length will the Pro Pride hitch add to my trailer in storage?"
The answer from Sean Woodruff was:
"I must have missed this question... It will add about 12" +/- a fraction of an inch."
And, on page 11 of the online Hensley Arrow manual is the statement:
"Complete normal hook-up of safety chains, electric plug, and breakaway switch cable. In some cases these will have to be lengthened due to the Hensley Arrow’s extra length which increases the distance between the trailer and the tow vehicle approximately 12 inches."
So, the question remains --- is the 3P really four inches shorter than the HA? And, if so, what got shortened?
And, getting back to the topic of this thread, does a difference in hitch length make any perceivable improvement in sway control?
Ron
* This post was
edited 09/06/08 05:42am by Ron Gratz *
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willald
NC
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Ron Gratz wrote:In December 2007, the following question was posted on another forum:
" Sean, how much overall length will the Pro Pride hitch add to my trailer in storage?"
The answer from Sean Woodruff was:
" I must have missed this question... It will add about 12" +/- a fraction of an inch."
And, on page 11 of the online Hensley Arrow manual is the statement:
" Complete normal hook-up of safety chains, electric plug, and breakaway switch cable. In some cases these will have to be lengthened due to the Hensley Arrow’s extra length which increases the distance between the trailer and the tow vehicle approximately 12 inches."
I think in Sean's response, he was saying that compared to a conventional hitch, it (ProPride) would increase the distance by around 12".
Now, I see your point, that this is about the same distance that the Hensley manual indicates. I'm betting that when the question was posed to Sean last December, he just went with the old 12" figure from the Hensley, knowing that it would definly be no longer than that, and in reality a few inches shorter. At that point (December 07), I'm not sure Sean was 100% complete with the desing of the 3P hitch.
Quote:So, the question remains --- is the 3P really four inches shorter than the HA? And, if so, what got shortened?
The drawbar as well as the head itself was shortened, as I understand it. As to whether that means the side links have shortened: Hopefully we'll have an answer to that question shortly.
Quote:And, getting back to the topic of this thread, does a difference in hitch length make any perceivable improvement in sway control?
Well Ron, I don't think you can deny that projecting the pivot point 4" even closer to the rear axle, *IS* an improvement (assuming lengh of side linkages didn't change).
Now, whether the shorter length amouts to a 'perceivable' improvement or not...Well, thats a very subjective, difficult question to answer, that would depend on a zillion different things. Hitch a 20' TT to an F350 using a ProPride, and NO, you will not perceive the difference. Hitch a 34' Airstream to an Intrepid with a 3P, and you just might notice the difference. And so on and so on...
Will
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clarkely
SE Pennsylavania
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Ron Gratz wrote:
When you have a minute or two, clarkely, if you can measure the following on your 3P, I think it will help a lot:
1. Re-verify the measurement I mentioned earlier - insert your drawbar into the head of the 3P, and measure from the drawbar pinhole (center), to the center of the TT ball hitch. You should come up with 19 3/4", thats what one other 3P owner got.
19.75" is from center of ball to face of receiver4.75"
2. Measure the length of the two side linkage pieces, center to center. The side links that link the top part of the head, to the bottom half. I don't know if the length of them is different from the Hensley, and am curious to find out. Front are 7.25" CC ; Rear are 8" CC
3. Also, Verify that the drawbar piece itself is 2x2. I think we all know thats what it is, but lets verify it for the one here thats trying to use a photograph to suggest it has shrunk to 1.8" Yes it is 2"
Thanks in advance, Clarkely, for your help in clearing this up for us. LOL, I wonder if we're eventually going to have to take a picture of measuring tape spread across some of these dimensions, before some people will finally accept reality. 
Will
other measurements i was asked about:
1.25" yolk to A-Frame clearance
connecting Steel thickness (front to back Pivot points) is .75"
Distance from Hitch pin to center of Ball is 22.5" ......19.75" from Face of TT receiver to Ball center
Pictures are below......with camera angles some measurements may appear slightly different........But i measured and re-measured.....Measure twice post once!!
Hope this clears or at least f actualizes any questions.
          
Link to photos on photbucket width=640
Moderator edit to resize pictures to forum limit of 640px maximum.
* This post was
edited 09/06/08 04:02pm by an administrator/moderator *
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