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Topic: Jayco went cheapo

Posted By: Montana Tracy on 03/23/09 04:28pm

We purchased a 2009 Jayco Jayflight G2 29bhs this past fall. We stayed three nights in it last fall before winterizing. I have been doing some mods to get ready for this up-coming season.

I found out that Jayco used an Iota DLS45 converter/charger on this unit mated to an Iota power distribution panel. The stock Iota converter/charger is the single stage charger. I ordered the Iota IQ4 to convert the charger to a 3 stage charger, but I couldn't find the place to plug in the IQ4. After calling Iota tech dept they stated that Jayco (to save a few bucks) eliminated the plug-in feature from the charger. The IQ4 add-on will not work on the Jaycos. BUMMER!

In order to get a multi-stage charger I will have to change out the DLS45 model with one that does have either the built in IQ4 or one that will accommodate the add-on IQ4. I thought other Jayco owners might like to have this info.

Anyone have ideas about this issue? I would appreciate your input.

I called Jayco to share my thoughts on the matter.

If anyone wants an IQ4 for the Iota DLS series, I have one.


Posted By: SooperDaddy on 03/23/09 05:00pm

The DLS-45 @ $165.00 (which has the dual voltage jack) is just a $15.00 less than the DLS-45 with the IQ4 @ $180.00. Too bad Jayco cheaped out on a $15.00 difference! You can sell your almost new DLS-45 on Ebay to recoupe part of the cost of the new one. They're going for $139.00 to $145.00 on EBay without shipping.

RVPowerPartsPlus.net has the DLS-45 with the IQ4 for $147.00!


My posts shouldn't be taken for factual data, and are purely fictional, for entertainment purposes, should not be constituted as related to scientific, technical, engineering, legal, religious, spiritual, or practical advice. After all it's FREE! Amen.



Posted By: skipnchar on 03/23/09 06:42pm

Lucas874 wrote:

Can someone fill me in on the difference between the single and 3 stage. Thanks.

Single stage has only one rate of charge. these have a tendency to either over-charge a battery when left connected for long periods OR to not have enough power to quickly charge a low battery (like from a generator). I've seen some that, in order to make them suitable for long stays in RV Parks, charged at a slow enough rate that it was necessary to run the generator almost full time in order to even keep up with use when dry camping.

Three state charger bases it's charge on the degree of discharge in the battery. Usually if it's below about 60% charged it will kick in with the highest setting until it reaches about 80% charged then reduce the charge level until it's about 90% then switch to a maintenance mode (trickle charge) and will slowly top off the batteries at that rate. Greatly increases the batteries useful life span.


2011 F-150 HD Ecoboost 3.5 V6. 2550 payload, 17,100 GCVWR -
2004 F-150 HD (Traded after 80,000 towing miles)
2007 Rockwood 8314SS 34' travel trailer

US Govt survey shows three out of four people make up 75% of the total population



Posted By: mike77leprechaun on 03/23/09 06:33pm

that Iota center sucks. the door snaps off and I broke mine already I wonder how much they saved by not going with a hinged door lol. I won't complain as they are covering the door under warranty when I did break it but I never thought I would miss having a hinge on my power center


Current Rig: 2011 Salem 29QBDS Towed with a 2010 GMC Sierra z71 Crew 1500 .

"You should really invest in a Diesel 1 ton to properly tow that popup"


Posted By: SteveRankin on 03/23/09 06:26pm

Very interesting.

You buy an inexpensive trailer and then whine because the manufacturer didn't spend extra money to make it easy for you to upgrade something?

You say it's only $15, but if you make 750 units/month that's over $11,000 a month, or $132,000 a year. And that's just for one single gizmo.

RV manufacturers, just like any other manufacturer, stays in business by watching the nickles. If your target market is on the budget end of the scale (as almost all TTs are) then you watch every penny.


Steve & C. J.
Gracie Rough Collie
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Posted By: Lucas874 on 03/23/09 05:07pm

Can someone fill me in on the difference between the single and 3 stage. Thanks.


2009 Jayco Eagle 324BHDS
2011 Ford F-350 CC Lariat 6.7


Posted By: jbbrick on 03/23/09 08:20pm

Our '06 Greyhawk has the Iota that takes the IQ adapter, and it works very well. Whatever you have to do to get the 3 stage charge, I recommend doing it. I leave it plugged in all the time at home and the batteries never need water and stay charged all the time without any maintenance.


'02 Winnie Adventurer 32V
2010 Ford Escape toad


Posted By: jspringator on 03/23/09 06:52pm

Considering getting an inverter? Now would be the time. You could put that money towards an inverter with smart charger. I simply disconnected the power to the stock converter at the breaker and capped it with a wire nut. Now that I think of it, I don't know why I capped it; its dead! I tried to disconnect the inverter, but it looked easier to disconnect the power. I don't think I would want to rewire that thing.

I'm with you on the panel cover. There has to be a velcro solution.


Jim & Sherri
05 Jayco Eagle 308 FBS, Dual Cam
2001 Ford Excursion 4.30 LSD,V-10,2WD,RAS,5-Star tuner
Honda EU2000 & EU1000 gensets;
2000 watt Tripp-Lite inverter/charger APS 2012
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"Scout" Springer Spaniel



Posted By: Mike Up on 03/23/09 08:24pm

The G2 is an expensive, upscale camper. Calling it an inexpensive camper is WAY off base and an insult.

This converter is a 2 stage, not a 1 stage. I was considering the 3 stage add on module but I guess I won't now. Thanks for the information though.

This converter is a lot better than most out there. Just because it's lacks 3 stage charging doesn't make it bad. It offers very good voltage regulation and is dead silent. There is absolutely no fan noise. Now go listen to a Elixer Converter, sounds like a turbo. Now go get a WFCO and watch and listen to the poor voltage regulation as you put more lights on or fans. The voltage drops as you put more appliances on. Even the Elixer converter I had didn't do that in the Starcraft as the cheap WFCO converter did in all the Rockwoods I found.

IMO, the Jayco's Iota Converter is far superior to most out there. Now if you're strictly wanting charging performance, buy a 3 stage standalone charger but the Iota is great 'converter'.

Have a good one.


2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH
29'1" bumper to hitch, 8' wide, 6'9" ceiling, 5050# unloaded and ~6500# loaded.

2012 F150
5.0L, CC, 5.5' bed, 3.73 Locker, 4x4, TBC, 360 Hp/380# Torq, 9300# Tow/1050# Hitch Rating, 1582 lbs payload. Great TV!

Campers and Trucks



Posted By: HTT to be? on 03/23/09 08:15pm

Our '07 has the plug-in feature. I added it right away.


2007 Jayco 23B
2009 E350 Ford Club Wagon 5.4 w/ tow pkg
Equalizer hitch, Prodigy P3 brake controller
Buddy 125 Scooter-FUN!
1997 Coleman Sunridge- Served us well for 11 years!


Posted By: wayne_tw on 03/23/09 06:47pm

SteveRankin wrote:

Very interesting.

You buy an inexpensive trailer and then whine because the manufacturer didn't spend extra money to make it easy for you to upgrade something?

You say it's only $15, but if you make 750 units/month that's over $11,000 a month, or $132,000 a year. And that's just for one single gizmo.

RV manufacturers, just like any other manufacturer, stays in business by watching the nickles. If your target market is on the budget end of the scale (as almost all TTs are) then you watch every penny.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides, I bet less than 5% of the buyers of this model, or ven any Jayco, even know what a three stage converter/charger is and would want to make that upgrade.


Posted By: lotust on 03/23/09 08:06pm

jayco has been doing this since 06. I found this out myself 6 months ago. Im in the same boat as the OP


Searching for our next TT Rv as we speak. Please let me know any good deals out there.



Posted By: jeffk14 on 03/23/09 08:18pm

SteveRankin wrote:

Very interesting.

You buy an inexpensive trailer and then whine because the manufacturer didn't spend extra money to make it easy for you to upgrade something?

You say it's only $15, but if you make 750 units/month that's over $11,000 a month, or $132,000 a year. And that's just for one single gizmo.

RV manufacturers, just like any other manufacturer, stays in business by watching the nickles. If your target market is on the budget end of the scale (as almost all TTs are) then you watch every penny.


I think everybody understands how manufacturers cut costs wherever possible. I didn't think he was whining at all. He was providing information that may be useful to others with similar units.


2009 Keystone Passport 285RL
2006 F150 4X2 SuperCrew 5.4 Triton with 3.73 axle


Posted By: Montana Tracy on 03/23/09 07:58pm

Now wait a minute Steve. You didn't read the whole posting or, at least you misunderstood it. What Jayco had Iota leave off the DLS45 is simply the place to plug in the IQ4 add-on unit. That's likely a 2 or 3 dollar item at most. It is mearly a phone jack type plug-in. Plus the G2 model is supposed to be somewhat of an upgrade. Jayco added a hokey little post-a-note board near the entry door that probably cost more than the plug would have cost for the DSL45.

Too bad we can't all afford an Airstream. Huh Steve?


Posted By: willald on 03/24/09 08:53am

Ahhh, the converter upgrade 'fun'. I did this to our camper a couple years ago, went with a PD 9160 unit w/charge wizard. Been very happy with it. Definitely a 'must have' if you ever plan on doing any kind of boondocking and need to be able to charge your batteries quickly, and/or would like to be able to leave the trailer plugged in all the time, and maintain the battery charge properly.

Sounds like this Jayco cost-cutting measure was pretty trivial, and would not have bothered me a whole lot in doing this upgrade. Like already said, the pressure on RV makers to make these things less and less expensive, is huge, they're going to find ways to cut corners here and there. I'd MUCH rather them do the cost-cutting with something like this, than with the structure, frame, chassis, etc.

Still, this is indeed good information for Jayco owners to know, when considering a converter upgrade. Subject line is a little insulting to Jayco, but at least it gets people's attention, haha.


Will & Angela
2 children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2012 FR Georgetown 351DS on F53 (V10) Chassis
Our Rig


Posted By: willald on 03/24/09 09:16am

tinybluetj wrote:

Mike Up wrote:



I've had my unit for less than a year & I honestly have no idea what converter I've got. Now I'll have to go check it out. Thanks for giving me "converter anxiety complex".


Ditto! I never thought about it!

I understand the difference between a stage one and three. But, what type of camping style would benifit from a stage three verses the one?


As I alluded to before, 'boondocking' style camping (no electrical hookups) would benefit the most from a 3 stage converter.

Any time you need to recharge your batteries quickly (like maybe, when boondocking, and you want to run your genny for an hour or two to quickly give the batteries a good charge), a 3 stage converter is almost a must-have. Typically single stage converters only put a small amount of current to the battery, so it could take several hours even days, to fully charge a battery once its depleted. A 3 stage converter would charge the battery much quicker, but at the same time, not 'overcharge' the battery.

Also, if you keep your trailer at home or somewhere that it can be plugged into A/C power all the time, a 3 stage converter is nice in that you can leave the trailer plugged in all the time, and most 3 stage converters will keep your batteries charged properly and will not over-charge them as can frequently happen with a one stage converter.

If you are the type that *always* camps where there are electrical hookups, and have to store the TT where you won't be able to leave it plugged in during the winter, a converter upgrade may not be the best use of $$.

Will


Posted By: willald on 03/24/09 11:35am

mhawk4 wrote:

Talking with some RV dealers it should only take four hours to fully charge the battery on my TT. This is the info i got when i was deciding on adding a second battery to my set up.


The key to this is what you started the sentence with, "Talking with some RV dealers...". LOL, how many times have we heard THAT from folks, who later learned the dealer involved was full of it?

Four hours to fully charge a battery? LOL. If we're talking about the usual 'run of the mill' 1 stage converters most RVs come with, 4 hours wouldn't give you anything CLOSE to a full charge. Unless of course, the battery was only 10% discharged to begin with! LOL!

Use your camper without electrical hookups for a day or two, and deplete the batteries significantly, and you can expect that same converter will take more like a couple days to fully recharge the battery.

Only way you're going to fully recharge your battery in 4 hours after they've been significantly depleted, is with a good, smart-charging (3 stage) converter, that can use a 'bulk' charge mode for a while, to return more 'juice' to the batteries quicker.

If you've just added a 2nd battery, and only have one of the common, 1 stage converters...You can count on taking a day or two being plugged up to AC, to fully recharge those batteries after they've been depleted a good bit.

Will


Posted By: Camping Hoosiers on 03/24/09 05:45am

I am in the same boat with my Jayco Eagle. I spoke with both Iota and Jayco and was told that I was out of luck on making this a three stage charger.

I was very disappointed in Jayco's decision to use this charger converter.

At some point, I'll swap it out but haven't yet.


2006 Jayco Eagle 314 BHDS
2001 Dodge QC - 5.9L Gas



Posted By: Camping Hoosiers on 03/24/09 02:01pm

BillB800si wrote:

Either DLS45 unit is a very good unit.
Here's the website: Lota


and here are the basic spec's:

The DLS-45 Power Converter/Battery Charger from IOTA Engineering converts nominal 108-132 AC voltage to 13.4 DC voltage for both DC load operation and 12V battery charging.

As a power supply, the unit's tightly controlled regulation allows the user to operate a nominal 12VDC load up to 45 amps.

As a battery charger, the unit will maintain the battery, delivering its full-rated current when the battery capacity falls sufficiently low. The voltage is set to deliver its maximum current for the necessary period of time to minimize undue stress to the battery caused by heating of its cells. This helps to ensure the longest possible life of the battery. Over time, as the battery nears its full capacity, the DLS-45 will automatically drop the current, providing a float-charge to the battery to prevent self-discharge of the cells.

DLS-45
The DLS-45 provides AC/DC conversion up to 45 amps and features a Dual Voltage Jack, allowing the user to manually select between 13.6V and 14.2V charging.

DLS-45/IQ4
The DLS-45/IQ4 features an internal IQ Smart Charge Controller which automatically provides three-stage battery charging for safer charging and longer life for your system's battery.

Happy trails,


What is in my Eagle is not in normal production at IOTA. Mine is a ILC-30-45 which I was told by IOTA that this is a custom unit for Jayco. It is a single stage charger and can't be upgraded by adding the IQ4.


Posted By: mike77leprechaun on 03/23/09 11:39pm

Montana Tracy wrote:

Jayco added a hokey little post-a-note board near the entry door that probably cost more than the plug would have cost for the DSL45.


when I looked at jayflights last year before buying mine I wondered why, with all the clear cost cutting done on the Jayflight line, why were they putting this cork board thing in there lol


Posted By: mecreature on 03/24/09 09:41am

Sounds like its a 2 stage.. with a switch for bulk charging.. this thing should charge pretty fast..
I understand the benefit of the smart charger.

Would I really notice that much of a difference?


Posted By: Mike Up on 03/24/09 03:46pm

Camping Hoosiers wrote:

What is in my Eagle is not in normal production at IOTA. Mine is a ILC-30-45 which I was told by IOTA that this is a custom unit for Jayco. It is a single stage charger and can't be upgraded by adding the IQ4.


I have the ILC-45. It's a DSL-45 converter/charger in a ILC electrical box. According to the manual that came with my camper, it's a 2 stage by description. It has a normal charge and a trickle charge, but no bulk charge. My previous 25 amp Elixer was the same, no bulk charge. My WFCO 12 amp converter was a 3 stage but voltage output dropped as the electric loads grew and the lights dimmed significantly from the poor voltage regulation. After discussing this with WFCO rep and Forest River, they stated this was normal operation on this converter. It's only good trait was that it was quite. With my camping style, I do not notice any difference in charging. Just the negatives of the very noisy Elixer and the poorly regulating WFCO converters. For fast charging, there are some really nice standalone battery chargers that are far superior to charging capabilities in most common converters.

Have a good one.


Posted By: StevenBigBear on 03/25/09 04:11pm

Checked mine today and no port for the 3 stage charger adapter. All this time I thought it was already a 3 stage charger. I am very dissapointed!


Ford Excursion 4WD - V-10
Hensley Arrow - Prodigy - Landyot Radius-Rod - Helwig Rear Antisway Bar - Bilstein Shocks - AirBags
2008 Jayco Eagle 320 RLDS

320 RLDS JAYCO EAGLE
WA6ARC



Posted By: BillB800si on 03/24/09 08:25am

Either DLS45 unit is a very good unit.
Here's the website: Lota


and here are the basic spec's:

The DLS-45 Power Converter/Battery Charger from IOTA Engineering converts nominal 108-132 AC voltage to 13.4 DC voltage for both DC load operation and 12V battery charging.

As a power supply, the unit's tightly controlled regulation allows the user to operate a nominal 12VDC load up to 45 amps.

As a battery charger, the unit will maintain the battery, delivering its full-rated current when the battery capacity falls sufficiently low. The voltage is set to deliver its maximum current for the necessary period of time to minimize undue stress to the battery caused by heating of its cells. This helps to ensure the longest possible life of the battery. Over time, as the battery nears its full capacity, the DLS-45 will automatically drop the current, providing a float-charge to the battery to prevent self-discharge of the cells.

DLS-45
The DLS-45 provides AC/DC conversion up to 45 amps and features a Dual Voltage Jack, allowing the user to manually select between 13.6V and 14.2V charging.

DLS-45/IQ4
The DLS-45/IQ4 features an internal IQ Smart Charge Controller which automatically provides three-stage battery charging for safer charging and longer life for your system's battery.

Happy trails,


Bill B. (Michigan)
2007 Dodge Ram 2500 MegaCab CTD
2014 Keystone Cougar High Country 321RES trailer


Posted By: tinybluetj on 03/24/09 08:58am

Mike Up wrote:



I've had my unit for less than a year & I honestly have no idea what converter I've got. Now I'll have to go check it out. Thanks for giving me "converter anxiety complex".


Ditto! I never thought about it!

I understand the difference between a stage one and three. But, what type of camping style would benifit from a stage three verses the one?


Posted By: SuperDutyMan on 03/25/09 05:56pm

Hmmmmmm...slightly unhappy Jayco people....I thought that NEVER happened,according to all the opinion posts!My standard 3 stage works great! (sorry I just couldn't help myself, LOL!)


2011 Palomino Sabre 31RETS,5th Wheel,Triple Slide,4000W Onan Genset
2006 Super Duty,XLT, V10, 6 Speed, 4.10, Tow Command, Tow Pkg. 4X4,Dual Exhaust,K&N,Reese 15K,Air Bags



Posted By: jeffk14 on 03/23/09 08:30pm

Mike Up wrote:

The G2 is an expensive, upscale camper. Calling it an inexpensive camper is WAY off base and an insult.

This converter is a 2 stage, not a 1 stage. I was considering the 3 stage add on module but I guess I won't now. Thanks for the information though.

This converter is a lot better than most out there. Just because it's lacks 3 stage charging doesn't make it bad. It offers very good voltage regulation and is dead silent. There is absolutely no fan noise. Now go listen to a Elixer Converter, sounds like a turbo. Now go get a WFCO and watch and listen to the poor voltage regulation as you put more lights on or fans. The voltage drops as you put more appliances on. Even the Elixer converter I had didn't do that in the Starcraft as the cheap WFCO converter did in all the Rockwoods I found.

IMO, the Jayco's Iota Converter is far superior to most out there. Now if you're strictly wanting charging performance, buy a 3 stage standalone charger but the Iota is great 'converter'.

Have a good one.


I've had my unit for less than a year & I honestly have no idea what converter I've got. Now I'll have to go check it out. Thanks for giving me "converter anxiety complex".


Posted By: Montana Tracy on 03/24/09 03:44am

Yes, I do think the Iota is a good basic product and I'm glad Jayco chose that brand over some of the others. It was Jayco that told me the Iota was a single stage charger. (I'm glad to hear that it may actually be a two stage charger.) There are, of course, work-arounds. I appreciate the suggestions.

I have been doing quite a bit of boning up on 12 volt systems from this site and through the links provided by this site and others. (This is a great site!) The charging system is quite critical in terms of extending the life of the batteries and the overall performance of the 12 volt system. It is even more critical for those of us who boondock a lot. If one choses to use campgrounds with electrical hookups then it probably doesn't matter much.

The Jayco is (IMHO) a good product for the money. Overall, they have put together a good package and one that can be built upon with some well thought out mods. (again, thanks to the many who have shared their mod ideas ... I have read through all the threads)


Posted By: Montana Tracy on 03/25/09 03:35am

I was told by Iota techs also that the Iota DSL45 in the Jayco is a special made model specified by Jayco as a special order without the upgrade capabilities to a 3 stage. Jayco told me that the charger in my Jayco is a single stage (regardless of what the literature that come with the TT says).


Posted By: mhawk4 on 03/24/09 10:19am

Talking with some RV dealers it should only take four hours to fully charge the battery on my TT. This is the info i got when i was deciding on adding a second battery to my set up.


Posted By: SteveRankin on 03/26/09 02:03am

Montana Tracy wrote:

Now wait a minute Steve. You didn't read the whole posting or, at least you misunderstood it. What Jayco had Iota leave off the DLS45 is simply the place to plug in the IQ4 add-on unit. That's likely a 2 or 3 dollar item at most. It is mearly a phone jack type plug-in. Plus the G2 model is supposed to be somewhat of an upgrade. Jayco added a hokey little post-a-note board near the entry door that probably cost more than the plug would have cost for the DSL45.

Too bad we can't all afford an Airstream. Huh Steve?


It really doesn't matter if the plug was $15 or $1, or even just a dime. What does matter is:

1. When you make hundreds or thousands of units, those pennys and nickles saved add up.

2. If you don't save them, then a competitor will and he'll be able to undercut your cost, sell his coach for less and still make a profit.

3. Most travel trailer buyers buy an interior that wows them for best price.

4. You need to realize that by spec'ing a converter without that plug, Jacyo saved a little money. Even if it was only $0.25, that's almost $200/month for just one gizmo. I'm sure they have figured out many ways to save a nickle here, a buck there. It all adds up. But, the interesting thing is that leaving out that plug didn't reduce the quality of the trailer at all. And that's the key. They reduced their cost in ways that (a) didn't affect the utility of the RV to 99% of the buyers, and (b) didn't affect the reliability or durability of the converter.

As a result, they still managed to build an RV that most think is well built, and for no more money than their competitors, so that enough people will buy a Jayco for them to make a profit and stay in business.

If you want to have a legit reason to complain about the cost cutting that an RV manufacturer does, then you need to start by buying a more expensive unit.

Everything is a compromise. A travel trailer is no exception, especially an economically priced travel trailer.


Posted By: kdenneny on 03/26/09 07:27am

Crap, I was perfectly happy with the converter I had in my 08 28BHS. Now I'll need to go look at it, then I'll want to upgrade. Crap. Now I too have "converter anxiety complex". Or is it converter envy? Crap.

Now when I ride through the campground I'll be looking at all the other RV's wondering if my converter is up to par.

This site costs me more money


01 Suburban 1500 5.3 - 08 Jayco 28BHS



Posted By: crah on 03/25/09 11:32pm

Has anyone switched out their converter yet? I can't figure it out. I thought it would be a simple plug and play, but the converter has a bunch of white wires that goe to it. I have pictures but don't know how to post it.

Talking to Jayco and Iota, it's definitely not a 3 stage nor have a 3 stage port. The Iota website doesn't even have the "exact model". They do have a similar model with the port option.


2003 Holiday Rambler Scepter 36PST 3 Slide
Cummins ISC 350/Side Radiator
Banks System
2011 Buick Enclave Towed
Ready Brute/Ready Brake/Blue Ox


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