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Topic: Lippert bent slide motor mouting brkt's. (long- lots of pics)

Posted By: JBarca on 10/15/09 08:37pm

Hi Fellow Slide Owners

I have a problem with my slide system motor actuator mount. See the pics below. You can see the trunnion mount brackets are bent and it looks like it took a heavy twist. I took that pic shortly after we bought the TT a few years ago. I saw the bend and said, heck sloppy assembly and wrote it off. That is until a week ago I when I had a fellow camper buddy with the same size slide, camper and drive system, but his ripped off the truninon studs…. He took it to his dealer and they welded on new studs and straighten out the brackets and told him it occurs often. They told him when you reach end of slide travel, be gently on the switch.







Here you can see the not soo good one close up


Well I now have concerns on mine before I end up stranded in a camp ground and can’t move the slide. I ahve not looked at that bracket in about 2 years. This weekend if the weather cooperates I will drop down the enclosed tank cover and see if the problem has progressed. And I will take the unit down and straight it out regardless.

I have called both Lippert and had a good talk with them on how the slide is suppose to be set up and the clutch system. I also called and talked to Venture Manufacturing who makes this actuator Lippert used. Both stated very similar things and yet both have no good idea on why the brackets are twisted up.

I have read back now 3 years worth on RV net in the archives on slide problems and there are many…. But with multi brands not just the Lippert one I have.

However I have not found any post in these who themselves fixed the problems and if they knew what cause the brackets to rip apart. Or if there dealer did it for them what they where told the problem was. A lot of broken links and pics that no longer post.

So has any one had this ripped up bracket problem on this Lippert sytle system and how did you get out of it?

Just so you know, mine ratchet overloads on the slide extend and the motor just stops on the slide close. Both Lippert and Venture says that can be normal and is OK. And I can get into those reasons if we need to.

Hoping someone has plowed this ground before and can throw some technical comments my way so I have more ammo on what to look for this weekend. I will confirm while under the camper, is the twist occurring from retract or extend motions or both.

Thanks

John

* This post was edited 10/17/09 10:41pm by JBarca *


John & Cindy

2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver

2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)



Posted By: LAdams on 10/15/09 10:01pm

John, why don't you just remove it and straighten it

Les


2000 Ford F-250SD, XLT, 4X4 Off Road, SuperCab
w/ 6.8L (415 C.I.) V-10/3:73LS/4R100
Banks Power Pack w/Trans Command & OttoMind
Sold Trailer - not RV'ing at this point in time



HUNTER THERMOSTAT INSTALL

HOME MADE WHEEL CHOCKS


Posted By: LAdams on 10/16/09 09:19am

I think the clutches have been problematic with the actuators for quite a while... Within the 3 motors I replaced, the clutches all acted differently... Some were "too loose" some were "too tight"... Doesn't seem to be any consistency there... My dealer said that there were compression (wave) washers in there applying the force to the clutch... I have yet to open up a motor/gear train and look but like most things in this RV Industry, there seems to be a lot of room for improvement...

I'll be waiting for further replies from you - this whole slide thing is of interest to me and I still have a bit of adjusting to do on my big 13 1/2 foot super slide in the living room... It's just a bit out of sync (1/2" to 3/4") left to right...

Hummmmmm - clutches - might be a topic for the next rally

Les


Posted By: LAdams on 10/16/09 11:55am

JBarca wrote:

You said your draws in 1/2 to 3/4 out. Assuming this is front of TT to back of TT direction. That points to the slave gear rack is out of time with the master gear rack as a place to start. Or you have major drag in the slide room front to back causing the timing to get out of kilter from more wind up in the system. Mine has an adjustment in the slave rack rail where you can adjust for this. First you have to get all the wind up and play out of the thing, then adjust for it. My super slide drws in and out OK. Part of it coud be the Lippert system, the other part the way the slide room is made and what you have on the floor plate creating friction.

Do you have any pics of your actuator mounting? It is messed up too?


Yeah, that's exactly what it is John - the slave is out of sync with the master... I comfirmed this by drawing the super slide in just far enough where one side (front) of the gasket material was just touching the trailer... Under these conditions the rear was still about 1/2 to 3/4" from contacting the gasket material in the rear...

So OK - you got my curiosity up and I just went outside and crawled under the TT and took some pictures of the slide motor/actuator...

You know of course good buddy, that I wouldn't do this for ANYONE but YOU - especially considering it's 44 degrees outside and raining

Anyway - here are the pics



The first one is of the slide motor/gearbox itself... Looks like it bears the Lippert logo so I'm not sure whose motor/gearbox it really is...






Here is one of the motor/actuator mounting brackets... Mine look straight as far as I can tell - brackets appear to be heavier
than yours I think






Here's another one of the motor actuator







And here is a longer shot of motor and torque tube... I didn't take any photos of the opposite side of the actuator but it looks like your first example... The end of the actuator has just a bare threaded end - no heim joint - and the steel bell shaped stop threads onto the end of the actuator with associated jam nuts holding it in place...





My slides do have the syncronizing adjustments and I'll probably fool around with that in the spring... I just have to take a little time and figure out exactly how I'm going to move everything to close up the gap... I also need to check one of the bolts that connects the square steel tubing that connects the master to the slave rack and pinion as it looks like the bolt is not threaded into the square tubing properly...

Les

* This post was edited 10/16/09 03:12pm by LAdams *


Posted By: JBarca on 10/16/09 07:40am

LAdams wrote:

John, why don't you just remove it and straighten it

Les


Les, you know me, I will. I won't let this go until I figiure it all out and it will get fixed. BUT how did it get bent in the 1st place????

Like I said, last week had a buddy with the same setup and his tore off the trunion pins..... His twisted up side brackets was a side effect..... Something is giving more torque then the motor mounts can take. After seeing his all busted up, I said, uh oh I better check mine out.

The system has a clutch that is suppose to trip in both directions to protect itself. Due to slide setup it does not trip the clutch on the slide retract stroke and the motor just stalls out under full locked rotor current. Both Venture and Lippert say that can be normal. The motor can take the locked rotor current. And the motor may be able to. Just the mounting trunions and brackets are having a hard time with something

I was hoping someone would find this note who sorted this out before. My enclosed tank compartment makes going in after this thing sort of a royal pain. But it sure keeps the entire motor set clean.... I was trying to cut down on the number of times I yank that cover on and off.....

I'll report back with pics and all in the normal detail fashion...

Thanks

John


Posted By: JBarca on 10/16/09 11:01am

Les

Does yours look like mine? Is it the Venture system?

Here is some of what is in the gear head unless it have been upgraded/or down graded.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseac........d/19852919/gotomsg/19867850.cfm#19867850 It shows the plastic intermediate gear. He left the clutch out though…bummer

Here is a drawing off the Lippert site. You can buy the gears now and the clutch for like $62


Here is the Venture drawing of what I believe I will have. Will know this weekend.
http://www.venturemfgco.com/docs/RVSO%20Techincal%20Data.pdf

And if you have the ball screw version it is like this:
http://www.venturemfgco.com/docs/850%20S........ll%20Screw%20Actuator%20parts%20list.pdf

And if you have the ACME screw version it is like this.
http://www.venturemfgco.com/docs/800%20S........me%20Screw%20Actuator%20parts%20list.pdf

You said your draws in 1/2 to 3/4 out. Assuming this is front of TT to back of TT direction. That points to the slave gear rack is out of time with the master gear rack as a place to start. Or you have major drag in the slide room front to back causing the timing to get out of kilter from more wind up in the system. Mine has an adjustment in the slave rack rail where you can adjust for this. First you have to get all the wind up and play out of the thing, then adjust for it. My super slide drws in and out OK. Part of it coud be the Lippert system, the other part the way the slide room is made and what you have on the floor plate creating friction.

Do you have any pics of your actuator mounting? It is messed up too?

Thanks

John

Clutches.... since they sell with profit the entire clutch and gear for $62... your not getting an industrial version. If you want a "real" clutch, let me know, but it will cost more then the entire actuator... It will out live the TT.


Posted By: LAdams on 10/16/09 11:57pm

Hi John,

Yeah, Vernon Hills is about 20 miles north of me up in Lake county - one county over - let me know if you need anything from them - I could take a run up there for you...

On my last go around with motors/actuators my dealer got me the higher RPM motor and the larger gear reduction... Not sure what it is but I do know it was a greater gear reduction - maybe 24:1 or 36:1 - can't quite remember... Slides were a bit slower but had more torque too... IIRC, the motors were higher RPM to compensate for the greater gear reduction...

Yup - that looks like my slide motor and actuator - even has the gold color on the outvoard side of the slide and single screw motor mount...

Can't see any part numbers on the unit but I may have to drop the motor for that... Let me know what you find out - OK??

Yeah, still cool here tomorrow - high of 50, then 60 on Sunday and about 64 on Monday/Tuesday - hang in there - it's coming your way

Les


Posted By: LAdams on 10/17/09 10:58pm

Excellent treatise as usual John and thanks for the clutch expos'e - now I know how they work and what to look for should I have clutch problems again... I knew the Bellville washers were involved from a previous explanation by my dealer, but your pictures are worth the proverbial 1000 words ...

A good bit of detective work on your part with the manual retraction theory and I suspect you are correct in your diagnosis...

Les


Posted By: BarneyS on 10/18/09 10:29am

As usual, another in-depth and thorough post by John. Thank you, and although my slide is a different make (I think) I learned a lot and a note on which way to turn will be on my trailer the next time I get to it. Thank you very much John!
Barney


2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch
2002 Ford F250 Super Duty, 7.3L PSD
Visit our website here



Posted By: HJGyswyt on 10/18/09 09:51am

I don't have any slide problems, and my Wildcat uses a Hydraulic Ram as the method for extension and retraction, but I found your post just captivating. That must have taken a bunch of time to post such an in depth explanation. Thanks for sharing that, I hope people who have to use the manual method of extension and retraction understand the gentle touch required to prevent damage.

I'm busy today putting my trailers underbelly back to water proof condition after having to open it all up due to a ruptured water line that flooded the whole undercariage. What a nightmare.

All the best....Hans



2003 GMC 2500HD CC Longbox SW/2002 Wilcat Bunkhouse 30'
/1987 Western Wildderness 11' Alpine Truck Camper/1971 MacGregor Venture Sailboat

Rig Pictures, click on this link.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Posted By: JBarca on 10/16/09 09:25pm

Les

Well, thank you very much!

Now your slide actuator, it is not the Venture system like I have. Lippert uses 3 different manufactures of slide actuator.

Yours look like the Tuson.

See here: http://www.lci1.com/LIP/0066.pdf

Looks like this from the one side


Tuson USA headquartered in Veron Hills, IL. Any where near you? And they have several off shore plants.

Mine is I do believe made by Venture Manufacturing.

Your motor mounts are for sure a lot straighter. Don’t know if my unit has more torque then yours. I’ll find the ratio out this weekend, think it is 18:1 and I’ll measure the torque it takes to trip the clutch. The Venture factory guy said they set these up mostly for like 95 to 105 in lbs. Not a lot. The ball or acme screw mechanical advantage is really big. He did said they can change the spring on the clutch for me if I wanted to.

Expect a full report forth coming and at least a few more questions…. I think it is going to a Carhart Bibs day on Saturday… not a lot warmer then up your way. The whole north east is sort of in Global Cooling…

John


Posted By: JBarca on 10/18/09 08:52am

LAdams wrote:

John and thanks for the clutch expos'e - now I know how they work and what to look for should I have clutch problems again... I knew the Bellville washers were involved from a previous explanation by my dealer, but your pictures are worth the proverbial 1000 words ...

Les


Thanks Les

And you know me... until I figuire it "all" out I can't leave it alone. The unknown bugs me too much. Plus...

You know of course good buddy, that I wouldn't do this for ANYONE but YOU - especially considering it's 42 degrees outside, cloudy and the wind blowing.

Having Carhart bibs and the jacket laying on the cold concrete in mid October.... Hurry up and send down the heat... Had a frost last night.

Yes, there is great potentional to really mess up the slide system with the manual crank if you are not aware of what is going on inside. 11 pounds of push on that crank is like nothing. A caution sticker and a direction arrow should be included on the side of all slide campers that have a manual crank. Mine will have one very soon...

Your super slide and mine are about the same size and weight. I didn't realize you had so many issues until I started reading the archives here. It would be interesting in what torque loads you have going in and out. The torque wrench and manual crank adapter helps put this in perspective real quick and can help with troubleshooting.

Thanks

John


Posted By: JBarca on 10/17/09 10:39pm

Hi again Fellow Slide Campers

Today was a good learning day and I believe I found the issue causing the bent slide actuator brackets. I’ll leave that until the end.

First the learning and how I came to the conclusion the damage occurred before I ever owned this camper. We bought it used and is was not used very much. The damage could of occurred by the prior owner or at the dealership opening up the slide.

I’ll do this with pics in attempts to keep the wording down.

Here is the bent slide actuator brackets 1 month after we owned the TT. The bent brackets show heavy torsion force in the direction the slide extends. Which is also the way the clutch trips. Mine trips on full slide extend and just stalls out the motor on retract. This is a key point with the clutch tripping in the direction of the damage.


And here it is today, 2 years later and a lot of camping fun later. Approx 60 camping trips later… The damage has not really progressed if any. I truly believe the damage occurred before we took ownership due to this. If this was an ongoing problem, it would of progressed.


Here are the brackets off the TT before straightening. The long one is 0.180” thick the small one is 0.166” thick. About 3/16”.








And the bent mounting plate on the master slide rail.


And here is the system put back together. I was able to straighten each bracket back to just about perfect. The mount on the main slide rail was not as perfect, as I could not get the it there very well. It is 90% better then it was. I feel after my learning today, this fix is now sound and no further work needed for the bent brackets.




OK now the real learning. How could it and how did it get this way?? When I talked to Venture Manufacturing they said they set the clutches up to trip at around 95 to 105 in. lb. That is not a lot of torque so how could thus heavy type of a bend occur? So I first set out to see if this very low torque was true. Well it is, as I measured it.

I made up an adapter out of an old pipe to go on the manual crank shaft so I could measure the running, slide closing and extending stop torque.






And here is the running torque in the middle of travel. A whopping 25 in. lb. I was shocked but now realized the large mechanical advantage of the ACME screw actuator and the beginning of what when wrong.


I check slide closed (retracted in), that was 75 in lb. It took 75 in lb to break loose the slide and start it moving out. This also explains part of why I do not trip the clutch on retract.

And I checked the slide fully extended. That was 100 in. lb. of torque. It took me 100 in lb to break loose the slide from full out and start back in. Also to note Venture stated the clutch tripped at 95 to 105 in lb and on my camper the clutch ratchets in overload at the end of each slide extend. So now, this all fits.

So I continued the learning to see how the gear box worked and to find out which one it was in case I even needed to buy one. Here is the gear box removed and the end that attached to the ACME screw drive. A roll pin drive pin. Take out the 2 , 5/16 bolts and this is in your hand. Not a problem.


The opposite side


The ACME screw adaptor end


Now for what is inside.




With the clutch gear removed


And now how the clutch works. (It is just resting in this vise on a shoulder, not clamped.)


Remove the snaps ring


And the 2 Belleville springs. These are spring washers. 0.030 thick, 1.233 OD and 0.649 ID. They are common in the machine building industry. Nothing special to the RV world. Here you can read more on these, this is just 1 place I have bought them from. http://www.leespring.com/int_learn_belleville_wash.asp

And now the gear and clutch star off the shaft.


And the clutch star out of the output shaft gear. This star is slotted, keyed, to the output shaft.


How the clutch works is, the clutch star (keyed to the shaft) is held by pressure in formed pockets in the output shaft gear by the force of the Belleville spring. When the torque on the output shaft exceeds the spring force, the clutch star pops out of the output shaft gear. That popping out of the clutch star is the ratcheting or click, click, click you hear. See here in the home position.



Now the beginning of an overload.


And 1/2 way thru it’s travel before it pops back in.


When I put it back together, I did a bench test on just this clutch part out in the open. It trips at 100 in. lb. Same as I got at the TT when I backed out the slide from full extend.

Now that I had it apart, I had to count the teeth to get the ratio as there is absolutely no numbers or tags on this thing, Only a sticker stating patent pending. I have 18.1 : 1 gear down ratio. Looking at the Venture cut sheet, that 100 in. lb clutch with this ratio and ACME screw = 1,200# of push and pull of the actuator. Now the stars are starting to align on what went wrong to bend the brackets…. Since I had it open, I added more grease as well in hopes of it lasting longer.


And here is some more learning. My super slide only has 36 11/16” travel. Again looking at the Venture cut sheet, my actuator has 40 inches of stroke. This is now why they set up the slide to reach the actuator over travel limit on the extend. It runs out of stroke on the way out, hits the hard stop in the actuator and ratchets the clutch. You then take your finger off the button and it stops clicking. You adjust the position of the slide and seals then by using the all thread rod screwed into the actuator.

Since this actuator has more stroke then the camper slide width, when I retract the slide, the unit comes up against the seals of the camper and the stop can. The motor then just plan runs out of power and stalls with the slide closed. Since I only reached 75 in lbs on the retract stroke, the cutch did not trip. Now why? Well the seals are soft and flexible like a shock absorber. There is no hard mechanical dead stop like on the extend inside the actuator. Since the motor power is matched very close to the clutch size, it is easier to run out of motor power then to have enough inertia to trip the clutch. Remember I’m only 25 in lb away from the clutch trip. Not a lot. If I had a motor with more power, it would trip the clutch and squeeze the seals and camper frame harder along with it. 25 in. lb of clutch = 300# of actuator force on the camper.

OK so now how does all this learning fit. Sorry this took so long but I had to sort this out in order to come to this conclusion. See this pic. This is the manual crank on my camper


What I firmly believe happened is 1 or 2 things.

1. The prior owner had a battery problem or no power and ran the slide out by hand. They had no idea of the high mechanical advantage of the ACME screw and this ratio. When you are in manual crank mode, you are on the end of the ACME screw. There is not clutch. Technically you should only push 11 pounds of force on that crank to seat the slide all the way out. The actuator bottoms out when extending. If you keep cranking the only place for the force to go now is directly into the actuator mounting brackets. 11 pounds on that crank is like nothing. If you go up to 22 lb that translates into 2,200# of push… something has to give! And even 22 pounds of push is not a lot. If they would of kept going they would of twisted the motor right off. This cannot happen with the motor running as the clutch is in the system them. Unless the clutch freezes up.

2. The next thing could have been at the dealer. They may have done the same thing. This TT sat for a long time on the dealers lot. Sunline was out of business then and it may have been to big for most. There was no battery in it when I got it. They had to put an old one in for me to tow home until I could put a new one in. If during its sales life in the dealers lot they cranked the slide out to show it, well they could mess it up too just as easy.

Here its a friendly camper heads up. If you have not already figured this out from reading gone with the wind here….. If you do not know exactly which direction your manual crank turns for extend or retract, now is a good time to find out. I never did until this saga. I never realized the damage that can so easily come.


How to do this safely, open the slide under power about a foot or so, 1/2 way out is fine too. Then put the manual crank in. Turn the crank slow and then figure out which way is extend and which way is retract. AND write it on the side of the TT some how. A direction arrow would go a long way here…. Since you are not on an end of travel limit, there is little danger of messing something up. The caution is at the ends of travel. If you are trying to open the side by hand due to power outage etc. and you start cranking it IN, when you want to go OUT, that is a problem as all that force is going into the motor mounts unprotected. And you can end up like mine or worse.

Well thanks for reading. Hope this helps.

John


Posted By: riverrat2601 on 10/18/09 10:26am

I too enjoyed the detailed banter. Hey Les, are you the owner of Adams trailers, I frequent that place often.


riverrat rockwood 2601 / chevy tahoe Z71 Equal-izer / prodigy


Posted By: LAdams on 10/18/09 02:56pm

JBarca wrote:

Yes, there is great potentional to really mess up the slide system with the manual crank if you are not aware of what is going on inside. 11 pounds of push on that crank is like nothing. A caution sticker and a direction arrow should be included on the side of all slide campers that have a manual crank. Mine will have one very soon...


That was really good to know as I have on occasion had to help my big slideout along as it used to get stuck in the in and out positions... Haven't had that problem in a while since I installed the new motors and actuators... Additionally, I have to crawl under my TT to manually actuate the slides as Skyline did not extend the motor shaft out past the frame... Hope I never have to crank them in or out manually - that could take a while ...

We may have to look into this the next time we're out together - would make a good project - maybe a "slide adjustment day" ...

Glad you got everything squared away... As I mentioned before, I'll syncronize my big slide in the spring as soon as I figure out how to move the one side in or out a bit without throwing my back out

I'm wondering if the slightly out of sync slide is at least partially responsible for some of the other issues??? That slide is really big and heavy - I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a little binding there...

Les


Posted By: LAdams on 10/18/09 10:38pm

John,

Another member just PM'ed me (Robbie69) and told me that he used a ratchet strap (tie down) to move the slide during the synchronizing process... I have some real nice 2" ones that should do the job... Robbie hooked one side of the strap to the bracket and the other to the frame and started ratcheting - works for me...

Will use them when I get around to it...

Les


Posted By: John H on 12/07/09 10:26am

John, That was a neet read. Followed your bread crums threw it all. It bring to mind that on the tarmack at NAS North Island, San Diego when I was in the Navy, there was a truck with a big yellow sign on the back in big black letters that read, "FOLLOW ME". That long ago memory, applied in your case John, thanks.


John H




Posted By: downtheroad on 12/07/09 10:49am

John,
I sure wish you lived NEXT DOOR to me....


"If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane."
GMC Duramax LBZ
Komfort
Reese Dual Cam HP
Our Rig Picture...CLICK HERE




Posted By: sunnyseagull on 10/18/09 02:13pm

we are so lucky to have him as part of the SOC. (SUNLINE OWNERS CLUB) Hi John keep up the good work spreading the welth of knowledge . Dan


Dan
wife
two boys
boxer rottweiler
Ford Excursion 6.8V10
Sunline Solaris 264sr


Posted By: Gene&Ginny on 10/18/09 09:36pm

John, great documentation and detail.

Do you think the dealer or someone could have used a cordless drill in place of the crank and could that have applied the power to cause the problem?

Gene


Gene and DW Ginny
2008 Toyota 4Runner 4.7L V8 w/factory towing option
2002 Sunline Solaris Lite T2363

Reese Dual Cam Straight Line HP Sway Control
Proud member of the Sunline Club


Posted By: JBarca on 10/18/09 07:38pm

Thanks for the kind words folks. Much appreciated and hope this helps someone.

Barney, I do believe you have a Barker Manufacturing slide mechanism in your SB Titian. They do not have much up on the web yet. Still under construction. http://www.barkermfg.com/barker5_029.htm

John


Posted By: JBarca on 12/08/09 06:55pm

TURK2500 wrote:

JBarca wrote:

snip.....Have a 30 amp RV plug, fresh water hook up and even a dump station...You can camp in the yard. John

John,

A little off subject, but is your "single site" RV resort listed in "Woodall's" yet? If it is, I'm sure it has a 5-Diamond rating

Turk2500


Well if I find any diamonds, I'll let you know.... LOL


Posted By: JBarca on 12/07/09 08:20pm

MWJones wrote:

Hey John, I have been reading your and others post about axle alignment. I have a 2003 Sprinter by Keystone. Brought used in 05.
Tires looked new, so had been pulled very little. I pulled it about
20000 miles (several long trips) Tires was wearing pretty even except
left rear. It worn from center to inside. Had to replace. Not enough
miles on new tire to see wear yet. All other tires has 1/3 tread left.
Camber off? How does camber get off on ONE tire? Can camber be checked by trailer shop without removeing axle and reset if needed without removing axle? Thanks for you input. MW Jones


Max see here for some help. I posted the response there as this could get to be a few replies. It's off topic here on slides. TT axle alignment & install - Detailed (long lot's of pics)

John


Posted By: JBarca on 12/07/09 08:34pm

jf504mp wrote:

Excuse me for jumping in here. I don't have a slid on my camper. I was really studying your pictures of the steel gear. I figure you put the black timing mark on it and the plastic gear.

I worked in the gear manufactuing industry for 30 some years and I was wondering if you saw any timing mark on the steel gear? More than likely it would just be a small dent out near the OD of the gear, next to one particular tooth. It would chust be a pucn mark.

Since you have more stroke in one direction, verses the other. Could it be that the timing is of buy just one tooth?

I am no machanic and all you have written makes alot of since to me. Just wondering about a timing mark. It seems there would be one there.


Hi Jf504mp

The black timing mark, good eye. Yes, that was me just being me. It is habit that when anything looks to be timed that it be marked before you take it apart. It is standard practice for me. Since I did not know going in there is no need to be timed, I marked it just in case.

However in this case there is no need for timing and there are no timing marks. There is actually a 3 position overload clutch that will trip when you reach full end of extend stoke. And as such any timing you had is now lost. There is no home position on that clutch.

The more stroke in one direction comes from how the slide system is made. The slide moving actuator has more travel then the slide. Rather then making a special exact length travel actuator, it is easier to buy a standard length longer then you need. One end of stroke stop of the actuator is used for extend. The other retract stoke bottoms out on the camper slide seals and a stop can ( an external stroke stop).

Hope this helps explain it.

John


Posted By: JBarca on 12/07/09 08:38pm

downtheroad wrote:

John,
I sure wish you lived NEXT DOOR to me....


Well come on over! I always wanted to see a Komfort TT anyway. Let's compare campers.

Have a 30 amp RV plug, fresh water hook up and even a dump station... You can camp in the yard.

John


Posted By: TURK2500 on 12/08/09 06:03pm

JBarca wrote:

snip.....Have a 30 amp RV plug, fresh water hook up and even a dump station...You can camp in the yard. John

John,

A little off subject, but is your "single site" RV resort listed in "Woodall's" yet? If it is, I'm sure it has a 5-Diamond rating

Turk2500


02 Chevy, 2500HD/4x4, 6.0L/4:10, GVWR 9,200lbs., GCWR 16,000lbs.
05 Jayco Eagle, 278FBS, GVWR 9,000lbs.
TV/TT loaded: 14,700lbs.
Loaded Tongue Weight: 1,250lbs.
Loaded TT weight: 8,400
Putnam XDR Class V, Reese HP Dual Cam.



Posted By: jf504mp on 12/07/09 05:11am

Excuse me for jumping in here. I don't have a slid on my camper. I was really studying your pictures of the steel gear. I figure you put the black timing mark on it and the plastic gear.

I worked in the gear manufactuing industry for 30 some years and I was wondering if you saw any timing mark on the steel gear? More than likely it would just be a small dent out near the OD of the gear, next to one particular tooth. It would chust be a pucn mark.

Since you have more stroke in one direction, verses the other. Could it be that the timing is of buy just one tooth?

I am no machanic and all you have written makes alot of since to me. Just wondering about a timing mark. It seems there would be one there.


Posted By: jetboater454 on 12/07/09 02:49pm

Had the same identical problem with my lippert slide.Brackets bent so bad it need a new actuator.It actually snapped a part off inside the tube.Pain to straighten those brackets.Then on reinstall I tack welded it in place.


Other half is camping with the angels,Riding alone for now.

2008 3500 Dodge Ram CTD dually 4X4 SOLD
2007 Gulfstream Endura Max 40 SOLD
2001 Polaris Ranger 4X4 SOLD
Harley Dyna Lowrider.

Mod Pics


Posted By: HappyTrails2U2 on 12/07/09 05:02am

JBarca wrote:


How to do this safely, open the slide under power about a foot or so, 1/2 way out is fine too. Then put the manual crank in. Turn the crank slow and then figure out which way is extend and which way is retract. AND write it on the side of the TT some how. A direction arrow would go a long way here…. Since you are not on an end of travel limit, there is little danger of messing something up. The caution is at the ends of travel. If you are trying to open the side by hand due to power outage etc. and you start cranking it IN, when you want to go OUT, that is a problem as all that force is going into the motor mounts unprotected. And you can end up like mine or worse.

Well thanks for reading. Hope this helps.

John


Thanks John,

That last paragraph of yours above will probably save some people some grief some where along the way. That's a good tip to remember or to mark rotation on the trailer near where the manual crank is located. I'll do that on my TT.

Thanks again,

Greg


2010 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8315BSS
2003 Chevy Silverado 1/2 Ton Extended Cab



Posted By: MWJones on 12/06/09 11:18pm

Hey John, I have been reading your and others post about axle alignment. I have a 2003 Sprinter by Keystone. Brought used in 05.
Tires looked new, so had been pulled very little. I pulled it about
20000 miles (several long trips) Tires was wearing pretty even except
left rear. It worn from center to inside. Had to replace. Not enough
miles on new tire to see wear yet. All other tires has 1/3 tread left.
Camber off? How does camber get off on ONE tire? Can camber be checked by trailer shop without removeing axle and reset if needed without removing axle? Thanks for you input. MW Jones


M Jones
American and Texan by birth
Christian by the Grace of God
Retired and enjoying Traveling and Camping
Spending part of summers in South Fork, Co



Posted By: LAdams on 12/08/09 07:01pm

Can I make an "on-line" reservation

Les


Posted By: LAdams on 02/27/10 02:25pm

I've got the Lippert slides in mine too John but no holes in frame for emergency handle... If I have to crank them in or out, I have to get under the TT with a ratchet and socket !!!

Les

OH - and not worry about boon-docking at your place - I'll bring my generator


Posted By: LAdams on 07/07/10 10:30pm

The Lippert slide mechanism has little "bearing buttons" inside the square tubing that the slide telescopes out on - they seem to do a good job... I have a little grease on my rack gears and I lubricate the pinion gear axles with a typical 10W30 oil otherwise they squeal like crazy when they dry out...

I wouldn't put any lube on the square tubing that telescopes out as it will just act like a dirt magnet... The little bearing buttons should do their job and prevent any binding or squeaking...

Les


Posted By: LAdams on 07/08/10 08:10am

Thanks for that link Robbie - last time my laptop crashed and I had to reload Windows I lost the link

Les


Posted By: Huntindog on 02/27/10 03:40pm

Awesome detective work.
This new TT I have has the Lippert system, so I was very interested in this as it's my first one.
Especially since on our last trip the bunkhouse slide malfunctioned. It seems to have lost it's adjustment and was retracting the slide in too far. I loosened up one side of the underbelly and peered in with a flashlight. I couldn't see anything obviously wrong so I went ahead and adjusted the stop can about 1/2". It is now working fine, but I still need to find out why this occured. I will end up removing the underbelly when time permits for a close up inspection.
I did notice a maybe unrelated problem. The tube is rubbing where it goes thru the frame. The tube is too low in the hole. This may have been like this from day one,,,, or not.


Huntindog
2010 Palomino Sabre 30BHDS
TWO bathrooms...No waiting!
MICHELIN XPS RIBS LRE
2011 Silverado Big Dually 3500 4x4 CC D/A
EQUALIZER Hitch
100% BOONDOCKING
Check out Rusty and her pups at www.bluecollarbrittanys.com



Posted By: Fisherguy on 07/07/10 10:51pm

This might be of use to someone


06 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6 spd std with a few goodies.

2007 Komfort 274TS, SteadyFast stabilizers, Trimetric 2025RV, PD9280, Honda EU2000i, Xantrex SW600, shocks and EZ-Flex suspension, Reese Strait-Line



Posted By: Fisherguy on 02/27/10 02:42pm

JBarca wrote:

Fisherguy wrote:

Great thread for people like me who know nothing about the slides on their trailer, thanks.

Downtheroad, does your 277TS have manual cranks for both slides? Ours has one for the rear closet but not for the main slide up front, guess if something was to go wrong I'd need to remove the enclosed underbelly to crank it manually¿?


Hi Fisherguy

H'mm , I do not know your brand but my slide motor is in the enclosed underbelly. There is a hole in the side of the frame where a small shaft sticks out and then a hole in the side to the TT for a crank to go in.

Boy it is hard to believe, even harder to actually accept, that your rear slides have a manual crank but the front does not. That does not make sense. If it is like that, some on may have opps'ed. And it happens.

Hope you find one, on the outside…. Good luck

John


I'll be taking a look, removing the underbelly and maybe figuring a way to add one if I have to. I'm trying to get hold of someone at Komfort with this and a few other questions, their customer service seems to really suck.


Posted By: Fisherguy on 02/27/10 12:37pm

Great thread for people like me who know nothing about the slides on their trailer, thanks.

Downtheroad, does your 277TS have manual cranks for both slides? Ours has one for the rear closet but not for the main slide up front, guess if something was to go wrong I'd need to remove the enclosed underbelly to crank it manually¿?


Posted By: Fisherguy on 07/07/10 10:17pm

What do you lube it with? The Lippert manual says not to lube it.


Posted By: robbie69 on 07/08/10 10:47am

LAdams wrote:

Thanks for that link Robbie - last time my laptop crashed and I had to reload Windows I lost the link

Les


don'tyajusthatewhenthathappens


2004 silverado 2500HD crew cab 4x4 long bed 8.1L gas hog
2006 skyline nomad 3260 platium edition, prodigy, reese dual cam
1 very part time camping son and 3 full time camping, 4 legged fur balls
1 SU (spousal unit) who loves rv'in as much or more than me



Posted By: robbie69 on 07/08/10 05:18am

what LAdams does is pretty much what lippert recommends for 'squeaking gear packs' Lip Sheet 0003
I also give the axel on the roller that's located on the inner tube end farthest from the gear pack a shot of oil. If you have a noisy, binding slide, this did wonders for me. Both slides run as good or better than when they were new. I do this when i close up the tt in the fall, when i open her up and a few times during the season(when i think about it)
Probably spent all of $15 on the recommended oil and a good, flex neck pump oil can-well worth it.

PS Some time when you have nothing better to do, check out Lipperts Lip Sheets they make some informative, interesting reading. Lots of good info there, just have to wade through what pertains to you and your equiptment.


Posted By: MyakkaTT on 07/06/10 12:59pm

I found this thread from searching for a problem we had this weekend. We have Lippert Elec. Slides. One would not extend we we arrived at campground. Which has happened before, so I pulled out trusty manual tool, luckily I had re-posisitoned the exterior hole becausae they missed by 3" at factory. Started to crank and there was lots of resistance. So I pulled wrench and heard the Clink, the pin in the override just fell out and there is no easy way to get inbetween the siding wrap and the frame rail. There is an access in the underbelly So under I went with my trusty razor knife and opened it up. Of course the cotter pin on the end of the motor is straight up and can not be pulled "easily" becuase it hits the floor. OK mangled it up and got it out. Now I thought there would be a flat to put a wrench on, nope just a round shaft. With lots of cursing an drummaging thru tools, I got a allen wrench in the hole for the cotter pin and the flimsy piece of pipe that used to be the overide, while the wife hit the switch I was able to get it free and open it went. But now I am stuck with making a new override. I think I will go to a 3/4" hex that I can use my jack cranks on. I can get it thru the hole. Thinking of maybe boring the end of a long 1/2" bolt to act as my overide. If this works I think I will do the other slide as preventive, much easier in the Driveway then in the dirt at the campground. But I am sure everyone had fun watching me curse and rip the underbelly open on our trailer. Atleast now I have a nice large access panel, will be sealed up with some eternabond for the next repair. If everything works out I will take some photos.
Not sure why this slide binds every now and again...But it was bound good.


2007 McKenzie Starwood SL 31 BHD
2006 Dodge Ram 2500, Quad Cab, 4x4, CTD
My Wife: Dawn
Myself: Scott
Our Dog: Our new Fur Kid, Kylee
Our Photos
Trailer Mods

"Quietly Making Noise"



Posted By: gon2dadawgs on 07/06/10 09:42pm

LAdams wrote:

JBarca wrote:

You said your draws in 1/2 to 3/4 out. Assuming this is front of TT to back of TT direction. That points to the slave gear rack is out of time with the master gear rack as a place to start. Or you have major drag in the slide room front to back causing the timing to get out of kilter from more wind up in the system. Mine has an adjustment in the slave rack rail where you can adjust for this. First you have to get all the wind up and play out of the thing, then adjust for it. My super slide drws in and out OK. Part of it coud be the Lippert system, the other part the way the slide room is made and what you have on the floor plate creating friction.

Do you have any pics of your actuator mounting? It is messed up too?


Yeah, that's exactly what it is John - the slave is out of sync with the master... I comfirmed this by drawing the super slide in just far enough where one side (front) of the gasket material was just touching the trailer... Under these conditions the rear was still about 1/2 to 3/4" from contacting the gasket material in the rear...

So OK - you got my curiosity up and I just went outside and crawled under the TT and took some pictures of the slide motor/actuator...

You know of course good buddy, that I wouldn't do this for ANYONE but YOU - especially considering it's 44 degrees outside and raining

Anyway - here are the pics



The first one is of the slide motor/gearbox itself... Looks like it bears the Lippert logo so I'm not sure whose motor/gearbox it really is...






Here is one of the motor/actuator mounting brackets... Mine look straight as far as I can tell - brackets appear to be heavier
than yours I think






Here's another one of the motor actuator







And here is a longer shot of motor and torque tube... I didn't take any photos of the opposite side of the actuator but it looks like your first example... The end of the actuator has just a bare threaded end - no heim joint - and the steel bell shaped stop threads onto the end of the actuator with associated jam nuts holding it in place...





My slides do have the syncronizing adjustments and I'll probably fool around with that in the spring... I just have to take a little time and figure out exactly how I'm going to move everything to close up the gap... I also need to check one of the bolts that connects the square steel tubing that connects the master to the slave rack and pinion as it looks like the bolt is not threaded into the square tubing properly...

Les


I have had the bolt that goes through the square tube shear twice! The slide keeps going ...on one end! The square tube going over the round output shaft is a very poor design as the tubes holes are becoming elongated.

I went to grade 8 hex socket capscrews and have no threads in contact with the hole. No more shearing. This is a rack and pinion slide and I keep a goog dose of DRY graphite spray on all contact areas.

The plan is to weld a collar on the end of the square tube and drill/ream the bore to fit the output shaft....round bore to fit round shaft...what a concept ...huh?
I would like to know if the clutch (torque limiter) can be adjusted....anyone done this?
Michael


Home is where you unhitch



Posted By: JBarca on 07/07/10 08:49pm

gon2dadawgs wrote:


I would like to know if the clutch (torque limiter) can be adjusted....anyone done this?
Michael


Hi Michael

If you clutch looks like this, the only way to make it stronger or weaker is to change the Bellville spring under the star plate. Back on page 1 of this post I linked to Bellville springs. Many spring manufactures make them. However heads up. Mine has plastic gears inside. Something has to give. If the clutch is stronger then the next weakest thing may go. My clutch trips each time the slide extends. In my case I really do not want to make mine any stronger.



Hope this helps.

John

PS I do find if I keep the slide mechanism rails lubed it takes a lot less power to run. Mine retract inside a closed tank compartment so the raod dirt does not get on the racks. Only what little is blowing around when the slide is out at camp.


Posted By: JBarca on 02/27/10 02:21pm

Fisherguy wrote:

Great thread for people like me who know nothing about the slides on their trailer, thanks.

Downtheroad, does your 277TS have manual cranks for both slides? Ours has one for the rear closet but not for the main slide up front, guess if something was to go wrong I'd need to remove the enclosed underbelly to crank it manually¿?


Hi Fisherguy

H'mm , I do not know your brand but my slide motor is in the enclosed underbelly. There is a hole in the side of the frame where a small shaft sticks out and then a hole in the side to the TT for a crank to go in.

Boy it is hard to believe, even harder to actually accept, that your rear slides have a manual crank but the front does not. That does not make sense. If it is like that, some on may have opps'ed. And it happens.

Hope you find one, on the outside…. Good luck

John


Posted By: JBarca on 12/08/09 07:15pm

LAdams wrote:

Can I make an "on-line" reservation

Les


Sure, LAdams in Site 10, Turk2500 in site 11, Downtheroad in site 13.

With a 30 amp supply that is 10 amps each or bring the Honda....

Check out is by 1:00PM unless prior arrangments are made.

And watch the big pine tree next to the dump station. Trust me on that one....

John


Posted By: JBarca on 12/08/09 09:03pm

EMD_DRIVER wrote:

Hmmm... Were John to invite me over, we'd probably have to consider it "Work camping" I would also have to probably hire John as a contractor. He could stand to make quite a bit of money.....


OK Site 14 just filled. Now down to 7.5 amps each... soon we will be boondocking..


Posted By: JBarca on 07/09/10 05:55am

To Lube or not to Lube…..

The Lippert links are helpful and for others following along not posintg, thanks for posting them.

I follow just about what LAdams stated which is very close to what Lippert is stating. The issue with the one size fits all instruction of Lippert is they do not tell you what not to end up with, just don’t do certain things.

I do oil the bronze bushings that the gear pinion axle is on. Lippert shows this.

As Les pointed out there are nylon wear pads inside the square tube that make up the slide arms. Those pads can run dry. I myself do no lube them. Long stroke, small pad, if lubing the pad it does not go far so I run them dry as the nylon is doing the lube.

I do oil the large metal internal roller at the end of the slide arm. This is buried up inside the slide arm. I’m not after the roller OD I’m after the axle bushings.

I do put a very light coat of grease on the rack gear teeth but it is more from a corrosion standpoint then a lube. The downward pressure of the slide will exert any lube in the gear teeth so if you try to keep lube in there it will not stay. Common for open gearing. I do the light lube to help retard off rust in the gear teeth from winter storage outside.

I do believe the large concern of the greasing is not the grease itself but what can happen to it and then what that can cause. This is camper by camper specific as all campers are not created equal…. On mine I have enclosed tanks. The master slide arm retracts up into the closed tank area and the slide arm, motor, ACME screw drive is all out of the weather and even better away from road dirt from towing. It looks like new on a 2004 camper. However I do have 1 arm (slave driven arm) not in the tank area. It is behind the tank comparment but it is up out of the way of flying road dirt. Since my slide is positioned this way in relation to the TT axles it limits what fly’s up and into the slide arms. Fellow campers with TT’s not made this way I can seeing having issues with dirt in the gears, racks etc. Ideally a U shaped cover be made on those unit to cover the unit and keep the flying "stuff", out.

The real issue with the grease deal is dirt. Once dirt gets in the grease then you can end up with issues from contamination. An even I on the light grease I put on the rack, take it off and reaply at least once a year because of dust in the air.

And like Les stated, I do not put anything on the outsides of the square tubes once extended they are a dirt fly trap….

The limited use of lube in the better locations and keeping a watch full eye on the system does help make it work easier. However that takes some extra effort that a one size fits all do not lube answer does not easily fit.

Hope this helps

John


Posted By: taborekle on 07/07/10 07:25am

Hats off to the OP for this. I've never had to crank my slides in or out, but if I ever do I now know that when it gets close to the end, to baby crank it very carefully.


Posted By: mosseater on 12/10/09 12:02am

John, another great post, as usual. Just wondering, since I haven't had the pleasure of hand cranking my slide yet (the idea of knowing your direction of rotation will be put to good use) I was wondering if the degree of racking from power side to slave side had any influence in how hard your actuator had to work (amp draws, wear marks, noise?). I've noticed mine racks quite a bit (about 1/2"?) and it looks like simple slop in tolerance from one side to the other. I'm guessing the gear racks do the main locating of the whole assembly, so having it all go in squarely is a good idea to lessen the force needed. I haven't sorted through the whole system because I haven't had to yet (yet!) but it occurs to me it ought to go in and out more sqarely than it does. Or is it not that critical as long as it functions smoothly and seals up tight? What say you?


"It`s not important that you know all the answers, it`s only important to know where to get all the answers" Arone Kleamyck
"...An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
Sunset Creek 298 BH



Posted By: EMD_DRIVER on 12/08/09 09:07pm

JBarca wrote:

EMD_DRIVER wrote:

Hmmm... Were John to invite me over, we'd probably have to consider it "Work camping" I would also have to probably hire John as a contractor. He could stand to make quite a bit of money.....


OK Site 14 just filled. Now down to 7.5 amps each... soon we will be boondocking..


Did you forget about my spiffy genny mod? We'd have an extra 30 AMP service, to put splitters on!


2003 Sunline F-344SR fifth wheel

1999 Ford F350.. 7.3 Dually



Posted By: EMD_DRIVER on 12/08/09 08:35pm

Hmmm... Were John to invite me over, we'd probably have to consider it "Work camping" I would also have to probably hire John as a contractor. He could stand to make quite a bit of money.....


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