eddeeeee
colorado
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Cherry Creek State Park has water, sewer and electric for hookups. Isn't that usually considered full hookups or is telephone and cable now required for the 'full hookup' designation?
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ECO718QB
The Road
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Joined: 08/17/2009
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Mile-High-Endura wrote:Is there a reason for staying at Cherry Creek and not an RV park with full hook ups? Monthly rates at an RV park or mobile home park might be worth looking in to.
Jeff
Yes, I am volunteering there. Additionally, CC State Park has full-hookups (incl wifi) in all but one loop (Cottonwood) which is for tent campers. As for TV/Cable/Satellite, I don't own a TV so I don't need it. But, thanks for the RV/mobile home park suggestion.
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Mile-High-Endura
Colorado
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Enjoy your stay. CC State park is too close to home for me to go camping there, usually crowded in the summer. Drive by it often.
Jeff
2005 Gulf Stream Endura 6340 8.1 gas
2000 24' Pace Shadow Limited w/ Husky Equilizer Hitch
1987 Jeep Wrangler YJ PS, PB, Automatic, Factory Air
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Rolling Condo
South Carolina
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ECO718QB wrote:Thanks to all of you. This has been a great help as I face being in Denver full-time for the winter. Much appreciated!!
Keep us posted on your preparations and how you are making out. Be interesting to see what works and what doesn't.
'90 GMC R2500 7.4L
'90 Avion 34V
Cummins Onan P4300ie
Reese Dual Cam HP
Prodigy
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Rolling Condo
South Carolina
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A thought for sleeping comfort. Check here Back Woods Solar then under Online Catalog, check Appliances AC or Appliances DC (your choice on preferences) for mattress warmers. Alot of those that have them prefer them over an electric blanket.
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Golden_HVAC
Fulltime, CA, USA
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Joined: 08/19/2003
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Hi,
One way to make the underside of the trailer draft free - at least after the first real snow is to pile it up around the base of the trailer high enough to prevent air from getting underneath the RV. This will keep the heat that is under the RV from blowing away.
I would talk with the experts on site to ask them about using the fresh water tank. When I was in Portland Oregon, I only had to deal with 26 F weather that winter, and it was great. I used my 100 gallon fresh water tank, and only needed to fill it about every 2 weeks, and drain the gray tank about every 10 days. I did this on a warm afternoon, when it was well above freezing, then put the drained hoses back into the basement.
A basement storage is a real help in such cold weather, as it is kept at 32 or above, and thus the floors are not exposed to the outside temperatures, so they will feel warmer. If electric is free, I would get a electric heater for use by the fresh water tank, and use it. This way the shower water will be pre-heated to about 60F, so your showers will last much longer.
I guess you already know that the 35 F water from the fresh water hose makes the hot water heater go cold in a instant once you start the shower.
I would get at least 3 electric heaters, and a 25' long #12 gauge extension cord. Some feed this cord through a opening next to the slide-out to feed one of the electric heaters. I found a space below my nightstand that leads to the basement, and I ran a extension cord to run a extra heater that way. If you only have 30 amps, you will need to run at least one heater with a extension cord from the main power box, and you can leave that one on high setting all the time (with a thermostat).
While using the microwave, or coffee pot, or toaster, you will need to keep electric use to a minimum while the other 1,000 watt things are running. Each heater is about 1,500 watts, and if you plan on not going over 3,200 watts, you should not trip the 30 amp breaker. If you have a 50 amp service, then you should be OK, as long as you are not tripping the interior circuit breakers.
You might want Maxx air covers for your kitchen and bathroom, so you can open them while cooking (with gas you are required to have some exhaust air) and when taking a shower, you can build up to much humidity if you don't have a vent open a tiny amount. They can let out air, even if there is a foot of snow on the roof.
I hope that you don't have a extended power outage and blizzard at the same time. But if you do, the furnace should keep up for a while, until the batteries go dead. Except for those two or three nights of a blizzard, you will be fine. Those blizzard nights you will be grateful for the mattress warmer, and electric blanket.
I would also suggest that you get Reflex insulation for the underside of your mattress, it will make it warmer. And I cut a piece for each window in my RV to use as blackout curtains, and they also keep out the heat and cold. I cut a piece for each ceiling vent as well, they stay in fairly well, as it is semi-rigid. You can get this insulation at Home Depot, it looks like shiny aluminum coated bubble wrap.
Reflex insulation can be mounted to the holding tanks, or used in a 12" wide strip to wrap around the sewer pipe line to insulate that. It would require heat tape to keep it from freezing though.
One person posted that they would take a warm shower, and do the dishes, then drain the gray tank each night. I guess it would work? If there is a lot of water in the gray tank overnight, it would freeze in your unprotected tanks. Leaving the gray tank valve open overnight will also work - I think. Especially if you insulate the sewer hose and have some heat tape on it for when it is less than 20F outside.
Good Luck,
Fred.
* This post was
edited 11/15/09 03:22am by Golden_HVAC *
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gogittum
Silver City, New Mexico
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3 weeks ago in Santa Fe, NM, temps went down into the 20's and my holding tank drain valves froze shut. I have a crack in the top of my rear gray water tank that needs to be fixed, so meantime I leave that valve open and just let kitchen sink water run on down the sewer. That intermittent trickle of water progressively froze in the outside flex line and plugged it solid. If the valves hadn't been frozen shut I'd have had an awful mess. I've moved further south now but still think I should insulate those valves, JIC.........but not sure how to go about it. No RV stores in this small town, either.
Lar.
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eddeeeee
colorado
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Joined: 04/16/2006
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Closing off the underside of the trailer is a great idea, but you will not be able to rely on snow to do it. We can go a couple of weeks between storms so you can't rely on having enough snow around to pile up around the trailer. If you happen to get enough snow, it will quickly be melted away on the south side by the sun.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Joined: 12/18/2004
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Hi all,
As Polonious said: Know thyself. For an RV'er this means they need to know what type of equipment they have before venturing out in bad weather in the winter (i.e. Size of the battery-bank; type and amp-hour rating of their converter/charger; and the current state of charge of the battery-bank). To do otherwise may be foolhardy.
If the grey and black water tanks are enclosed and heated then the RV is a big step towards being able to be used in harsh winter weather. If the waste tank area is not heated consider adding a thermostatically controlled heater. I use a 500 watt interior car warmer with a mechanical thermostat. There are also specialized tank heaters some of which work on both shore power and twelve volt power.
It is prudent to know how low the temperature may be. Check the weather history for a year ago for the week in the location you may be heading to. It won't be perfect but at least you may have some idea of what to expect.
The water system may be quite robust and usable so long as there is sufficient propane available to keep it thawed. I have used my RV at -37 C (-34 F). I've also boondocked for 5 days where the daily high was -24 C and in blizzard conditions so my solar panels may not have contributed much electrical charging. Do leave the cupboard doors open to allow warm are to circulate. I have another thermostatically controlled electric heater beside my water pump.
If there is access to “shore power” then adding a radiant heater (or two) may lighten the load on the propane furnace. Do keep the heaters further away from the thermostat at night. Do not add so much electric heat that the furnace doesn't run at all. That is an invitation to freeze the fresh water pipes.
If no shore power is available then a generator system may probably be needed. Most of the systems in an RV need reliable 12 volt power for their control systems—no power translates into no heat from the furnace. When running the generator, use as many electrical heaters as you can. I suggest 3 hours in the evening before bed, and 2 hours in the morning. Don't forget to have enough capacity to run the engine block heater, too.
I have a load divider which allows me to run a heater as well as the block heater at the same time. It alternates between the two. Some folks use one timer on a heater—and another on the block heater so as to not overload the electrical outlets the RV is plugged into.
Some folks have an additional outlet added through the wall of their RV. This is powered by a #12 cord plugged into a 15 or 20 amp outlet on the power pedestal. They then plug in a 1500 watt heater to help keep the RV warm. This is particularly useful to those of us who have only a 30 amp service in our RV's.
On a temporary basis, while you are awake, it is possible to use the stove top as a blue flame heater. Do not run them full blast, and never leave them unattended. DO NOT SLEEP WITH THEM ON. This may lessen the load on the batteries.
Be aware that battery capacity drops as temperatures become lower. Some enterprising folks do have heated battery compartments. These heaters operate from the generator or from shore power. Running such heaters via an inverter is a zero sum proposition at best and at worst will decrease the total run time of the system.
If the RV will be used often in harsh conditions I suggest considering a vented catalytic heater such as the Platinum Cat. ( http://www.ventedcatheater.com/ )
If there are not dual pane windows, or if the RV will be used in extreme cold it is prudent to have blankets that can be placed over them at night.
I also block off the cab area of my Class C with a thick woolen blanket. This reduces the heated area and reduces propane consumption.
I have another blanket that I hang over the entry door.
Park with the nose of the RV into the wind. Wind direction may change direction overnight—but at least start out that way.
If the floors are linoleum purchase some carpet “runners” to keep your feet warmer. Don't block off the floor heating vents.
The RV stores often sell vent pillows that help to keep the heat in (and in summer time keep the heat out).
Twelve volt mattress pads and heating blankets are a lovely addition to cold weather camping and allow the furnace to be set back to a lower temperature in the evening. They usually draw about 7 amps each.
Always carry enough RV antifreeze, and the necessary tools, to rewinterize should something prevent use of the furnace. It is far better to have an ounce of prevention than a pound of cure.
Keep the fuel tank nearly full—the dash heater can be used as a temporary back up to the furnace should the propane supply fail.
I find that my dash heater works best for heating the rear of my RV if I set it on defrost while I trundle down the road.
I do not have a slide on my RV. If possible I'd recommend not putting the slide out. It will go out fine—but the next day it may be difficult to retract it.
I'm sure others will have additional suggestions for you! Have a great trip!
Regards, Don
Kustom Koach Class C 28'5" 256 watts solar, 875 amp hours in two battery banks 12 volt batteries 2500 watt inverter.
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ECO718QB
The Road
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Pianotuna -- Thank you for your thoughtful response. As you may have noticed, I asked my orig question back in October, but thank you anyway.
As for those who are curious how I'm doing in Denver, CO in a 19' travel trailer, here you go. I am having a BALL!!! This has been one of the greatest experiences of my life!! After already having had three big snows (a lot for Denver this time of year) and 4-7 days of below zero temps (windchill factor close to -20) back in Nov/Dec and expecting close to actual temp close to 0 again tonight, no major problems...despite many nay-sayers and 'experts' who told me I was "foolish to go to Denver in the winter without a 'big rig' made for extreme conditions"...esp for a GIRL!!! :-)) The fact is, I didn't have a choice. I'm not retired and must work for a living. So, I prayed, asked God for wisdom and did the following:
I have an ECO 718QB by Skamper (Dutchman); therefore, I have exposed underbelly, i.e. no underside insulation of any kind. I have two 5-gal (20#) propane tanks and have only had to fill them twice, the second time was just last week. RE HEAT: I use one small 1500 watt electric heater. I have my handmade quilt from my Grandma and a couple of throws on the bed but no heated blankets, etc. I removed the 'floor' of my bathroom cabinet and kitchen cabinet to allow heat to cirulate better around the water pipes and stuffed a small towel around the water flexline that comes from my fresh water tank to reduce the draft from outside. RE WATER: I did not fill and do not use my fresh water tank at all. I figured if there was no water in it, there's nothing to freeze! :0 I'm have full-hookups and, therefore, use the heated water supply at the Park. I keep my black and grey lines connected to sewer and keep both valves open at all times. I keep both my electric AND propane turned ON for the water heater at all times to ensure the water remains hot. The propane will not come on unless the electric can't do the job, so no 'wasted' propane. I try not to use hot water after about 5pm in order to keep the water heater from having to heat the water. It just has to maintain the temp overnight. As for my water supply, etc., the water hose has electric 'heat tape' plus thin fiberglass insulation plus an insulated foam 'cushion' wrap around it.
My water from the faucet to the camper has not yet frozen. My water lines inside have frozen 4 nights thus far but thawed out the next day. I think I have the whole water-thing figured out, i.e. solved now.
My 30# cocker spaniel and I are doing great and he has adjusted to life in 112sf (versus the 1600+ I sold in May). I simply remind him that he has the world's largest 'crate' for himself!! That seems to have satisfied him. LOL
For all you snowbirds down south. Come on back through Denver on your way back up north and see me. I'm at the Cherry Creek State Park in Denver! Be safe. Use wisdom. And thank the Lord every day for His sufficiency and daily provision!!!
Blessings!
Robin (and Chip)
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