DWeikert
York, PA
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btggraphix wrote:So, Jumbojet, dweikert, and others of the "it's not the extra tires its all in the suspension" camp riddle me this:
Why do most "modify the SRW to the nth degree" people consider 19.5" wheels the cat's meow (and the best ride improvement they did and one of the most costly) for SRW's?
I believe tire bulge IS a big big factor and the IS a portion of why a DRW is so much more stable. How can you argue that?
PS, and Jumbo, is the wider stance of the DRW doesn't help, why is it you then argue that by widening out your 19.5's could help? You are violating your own argument.....
OK, let me clarify my stance here (no pun intended). Without a doubt a dually will carry a heavier payload than a SRW just due to the extra wheels spreading the load. ASSUMING that both vehicles are carrying a load within their rating, than any difference in sway is due to the suspension, not the extra wheels. The axle is going to stay parallel to the road on both trucks, it's the body that leans. Both SRW and DRW use the same frame/body mount points so the added width of the rear wheels makes no difference in body lean, once again as long as that lean isn't caused by tire bulge. IF you have that much tire bulge, you're probably way overloaded or running underrated tires.
As to why SRW owners modify their suspension, obviously since a DRW has a higher payload capacity it has a heavier duty suspension. My point was regarding sway/lean. Adding two outside wheels doesn't affect how the body leans on the suspension. Having the heavier suspension that comes stock on a dually is what limits the lean, not the extra wheels.
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Jumbo Jet
Ozark Mountains, Arkansas
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Joined: 04/29/2005
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btggraphix wrote:
You:
"My Rickson 19.5" wheels also set out a couple inches further than the stock wheels, giving me a wider footprint. My tires have a stiffer sidewall and carry up to 95 psi - no tire bulge going around those corners for me!"
I'm just saying that the reason the ricksen's makes such a big difference is because it reduces tire bulge (not sure if the wider stance makes a difference or not but it would certainly reduce chances of rollover.) You could even extend the argument and say you think one Rickson bulges less than 2 16.5's (though I doubt that is true.)
Though I'm not sure why you would state the Ricksons give you a wider stance if you weren't thinking that helps you somehow.
Well, actually, the extra width does add to stability - I just wasn't using that to justify why some people can be comfortable driving an SRW instead of a DRW.
2008 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins Turbo Diesel - 1999 Lance 1030 - Torklift Tiedowns, Stableloads, Derringers, Pigtail - Hellwig Anti-Sway Bar - Rickson 19.5" Aluminum wheels - Michelin XRV tires
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Matthew_B
The boonies near Dallas, Oregon
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Joined: 08/18/2005
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DWeikert wrote:These posts always interest me. I'm going to guess Matt is in a dually and TCer#1 SRW.
Correct. DJ and I were the only dually owners in the caravan.
DWeikert wrote:So, it seems to me the real problem here is suspension, not the number of wheels. Either TCer#1 needs anti-sway bars or stiffer springs or both. The number of wheels makes no difference.
I'm cheating a little. My camper doesn't have a basement so it's a over a foot lower. Everyone else had a basement model so they started with a higher center of gravity.
I also had the heaviest truck by a good margin, also helpful in the COG department. I also have a heavy sway bar AND all steel springs that are beefed up from stock.
It was FAR from apples to apples.
DWeikert wrote:While typing this, it occurred to me that it is possible for the tires themselves to bulge while cornering and cause some of the lean in which case a dually would spread the load over more rubber, but I still think it's more to do with suspension.
I do believe that the bulge in the tires does make a noticeable difference. I went cheap on the back end of my truck last summer and I didn't replace the Michelin XPS tires with like tires. It definitely increased the lean and sway. I'm used to it now but the first corner I took with the new tires startled me for sure.
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sleepy
Oak Ridge,Tennessee
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Joined: 04/07/2003
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Do you think that the original poster has his answer(s)?
I personally think:
Pick out your dream camper
Pick out a truck that will haul it
Use it every time you get a chance
Good luck on your dream
Sleepy
2003 Lance 1161,/slideout/AGM batteries/255W Solar/propane generator/Sat dish/2 Fantastic Fans model 6150/AC/winter package
AirFoil, Trimetric, LED lights
2003GMC K3500 LT/Crewcab/duramax diesel/allison/dually/4x4/OnStar/front reciever mounted spare
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WesternRoamer
Pacific NW
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Joined: 01/15/2008
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A-men.
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Butch50
NW Montana
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I wasn't going to wade into this but I'm probably one of the few that have converted a 1985 F250 Heavy Duty long bed (460 CI 4 speed manual standard cab) into a dually. Carried the same camper on the truck so using the same load. In 1988 I wanted a dually F350 4X4 with a pickup bed and wanted to stay with a Ford. Ford didn't make them so I made it myself. I can tell you first hand the difference between handling before and after was dramatic. I had white knuckles with the SRW and after the dually conversion it handled great. Same suspension (no mods to it) same camper and same truck and same roads. So everybody can say what they want but I have first hand experience with it and have felt it. The camper did not have a slide in it and it was a 1986 Vactioneer 11'. Fiberglass siding and a heavy camper. This is my experience and IMO.
Butch
2006 F550 CC 4X4 Lariat PSD/Torqshift Dark Shadow Metalic Grey
2009 Excel Limited (sold)
2009 Arctic Fox 1140
2006 Dodge 3500 Laramie 4X4 QC SB SRW/Cummins Jake exhaust brake
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btggraphix
Golden, CO
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Joined: 03/08/2005
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apples and apples 
I think I remember you mentioning that before - didn't you have 5R in Golden do it? That's how they made their name I think....
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two-rock
Cape Cod, MA
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Joined: 10/27/2009
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A GREAT example of how 19.5" wheels/tires will make a huge difference on a SRW.
If the suspension is the same, the DRW stability can only be related to the added 'training' wheels.'. The moment arm diagrams posted earlier only apply to a roll over (all things being equal, other than track width *including proper tire loading*).
Anyone ever see a 'chopped axle' in a DRW with the second set of wheels mounted inboard of the original set? It'd look like a drag racer driving without the camper, as opposed to the current DRW cluge manufacturers put on the lot (up until the last couple years, anyway).
Butch50 wrote:I wasn't going to wade into this but I'm probably one of the few that have converted a 1985 F250 Heavy Duty long bed (460 CI 4 speed manual standard cab) into a dually. Carried the same camper on the truck so using the same load. In 1988 I wanted a dually F350 4X4 with a pickup bed and wanted to stay with a Ford. Ford didn't make them so I made it myself. I can tell you first hand the difference between handling before and after was dramatic. I had white knuckles with the SRW and after the dually conversion it handled great. Same suspension (no mods to it) same camper and same truck and same roads. So everybody can say what they want but I have first hand experience with it and have felt it. The camper did not have a slide in it and it was a 1986 Vactioneer 11'. Fiberglass siding and a heavy camper. This is my experience and IMO.
1999 Ford F350, 7.3, SRW, Hellwig, DIY Stable Loads, no air bags ..
2003 Lance 821
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saggys
WI
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Joined: 02/02/2008
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Just to stir the pot; Why not a class C instead of huge truck and TC?
How many of you 450, 550 owners use your truck without your truck camper?
1999 F350 4WD CC SRW V-10, 4.30 Tow Package, HD Camper Package.
1999 Northstar TS1000, Torque Lift tie downs with Fastguns.
2006 Triton Frontier 17 with 60hp Merc 4 stroke tiller.
2003 Lance 1010.
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btggraphix
Golden, CO
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saggys wrote:Just to stir the pot; Why not a class C instead of huge truck and TC?
How many of you 450, 550 owners use your truck without your truck camper?
Me. Albeit not that often, but when I need it, it is there. I hauled 28 loads of fill dirt in my dump trailer over the last month or so, and preferred to not have the camper on. I'll be hauling stuff from my parents home in a couple of months but I don't yet know the volume of stuff I will be taking - if it isn't that much, I'll take the camper and pull a trailer. If it is too much, I'll just take the truck and trailer. That's the beauty of a TC - the flexibility they provide. A there aren't many options for 4x4 Class C's (and the ones there are - at least the bigger ones like the Host are more likely to have problems due to twisting the body apart. The Tigers seem to hold up well.
I don't need it that often, but when I do, I have it. Most others are probably similar. A low ground clearance, 2WD, long chassis and turning radius, one purpose Class C just doesn't work for us.
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