coolbreeze01
Redding, Ca
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Tag trailer has to be behind a 5th wheel here in Ca. Requires a doubles/triples endorsement.
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Wes Tausend
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Wouldn't a lightly set boat trailer WD hitch transfer enough weight forward to keep the rear of the TT at the same height, meaning zero effective weight added the rear of the TT?
Seems like it would. If super-adjusted TT WD hitches theoretically can lift the rear tires on a TV (tires can be removed) by transfering much of the weight to the front TV axle, super-adjusted 3rd trailer WD hitches should also be able to remove similar weight from the TT axles (tires can again be removed) by a boat or 3rd trailer putting it all on the TT hitch ball. Not that anyone would want to actually go that far, because it would result in zero stability, of course.
Point being, that overdoing it, would remove weight from the TT axles that they may lose some tracking grip. But doing it just right should result in identical TT hitch weight being retained on the TV. Going through dips could be weird with a WD set-up like this, however.
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mowermech
Billings, MT
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coolbreeze01 wrote:Tag trailer has to be behind a 5th wheel here in Ca. Requires a doubles/triples endorsement.
Again, would YOU be so kind as to give the CA Vehicle Code reference?
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carringb
Corvallis, OR
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Actually, looks like its not allowed:
CAlifornia Vehicle Code wrote:Passenger Vehicle Combinations: Number and Weight Limits
21715. (a) No passenger vehicle regardless of weight, or any other motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen, shall draw or tow more than one vehicle in combination, except that an auxiliary dolly or tow dolly may be used with the towed vehicle.
(b) No motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen shall tow any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more gross.
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rrnelsonjr
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mowermech wrote:rrnelsonjr wrote:~DJ~ wrote:
I'm surprised that California lets you double tow. But I think there the first trailer has to be a 5Th wheel, not ball to ball.
Nope, it's legal in Calif to tow two tag along trailers. I had a hard time believing it myself but I checked with highway patrol and the vehicle code.
Would you be so kind as to give the California Vehicle Code reference?
It is not only what the CVC does say, but it is also what it doesn't say. Section 21715(a) says "No passenger vehicle regardless of weight, or any other motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen, shall draw or tow more than one vehicle in combination, except that an auxiliary dolly or tow dolly may be used with the towed vehicle." My old Suburban is restricted to towing one trailer because section 465 states "A 'passenger vehicle' is any motor vehicle, other than a motortruck, truck tractor, or a bus, as defined in Section 233 , and used or maintained for the transportation of persons. The term 'passenger vehicle' shall include a housecar."
My pickup truck is defined in section 471 as "A 'pickup truck' is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. 'Pickup truck' does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a 'utility body'." and section 410 defines a motortruck as "A 'motor truck' or 'motortruck' is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property." Therefore my pickup truck can pull more than one trailer because it is not defined as a "passenger vehicle", it is defined as a "motortruck".
Section 29004(a)(1) states "Except as required under paragraph (2), every towed vehicle shall be coupled to the towing vehicle by means of a safety chain, cable, or equivalent device in addition to the regular drawbar, tongue or other connection." 29004(a)(2) says "Any vehicle towed by a tow truck shall be coupled to the tow truck by means of at least two safety chains in addition to the primary restraining system. The safety chains shall be securely affixed to the truck frame, bed, or towing equipment, independent of the towing sling, wheel lift, or under-reach towing equipment." 29004(d) states "Subdivision (a) does not apply to a semitrailer having a connecting device composed of a fifth wheel and kingpin assembly, and it does not apply to a towed motor vehicle when steered by a person who holds a license for the type of vehicle being towed." Section 29006(a) states "No person shall operate a vehicle towing another motor vehicle upon a freeway unless the towing vehicle is coupled to the towed vehicle by a rigid structure attached securely to both vehicles by nonrigid means." Section 670 defines a "vehicle" as "a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks." So when these section state "vehicle" that is not just the power unit.
29003(a) states "Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight drawn. The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the towing and towed vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement or bracing of the frame to provide sufficient strength and rigidity to prevent undue distortion of the frame." 29003(b) states "The drawbar, tongue, or other connection between the towing and towed vehicles shall be securely attached and structurally adequate for the weight drawn."
Section 15278(a)(1) states " A driver is required to obtain an endorsement issued by the department to operate any commercial motor vehicle that is any of the following: (1) A double trailer."
Section 35401(a) and (b) state "(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b), (c), and (d), a combination of vehicles coupled together, including attachments, may not exceed a total length of 65 feet.
(b) (1) A combination of vehicles coupled together, including attachments, that consists of a truck tractor, a semitrailer, and a semitrailer or trailer, may not exceed a total length of 75 feet, if the length of neither the semitrailers nor the trailer in the combination of vehicles exceeds 28 feet 6 inches."
When I put all this information together the interpretation I get is as long as I use my current pickup truck I can tow two trailers because it is defined as a "motortruck" and not a "passenger vehicle." As long as my hitch is rated for the amount of total weight I am pulling it is ok for the first trailer to be a tag along because never did I see a requirement for the first trailer to be a fifth wheel. As long as my license has a double endorsement and I am not over 65 ft in length I am good to go. I do need to keep the combination in control because section 21711 states " No person shall operate a train of vehicles when any vehicle being towed whips or swerves from side to side or fails to follow substantially in the path of the towing vehicle."
I also found information on the CalTrans web site that had information on "longer combination vehicles" and saw the following statement: "California Legal: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 35401(a) states that no combination of vehicles may exceed a length of 65 feet. This section does not mention the maximum number of vehicles allowed. (However, Section 21715 limits the number of trailers to one if the towing vehicle is a passenger vehicle, or if the towing vehicle is under 4,000 pounds unladen.)."
I apologize for this post being so long but I was trying the best I could to cover all the bases. If someone knows or can find the section of the California vehicle code that states the first trailer is required to be a fifth wheel please forward that section number to me so I can correct my analysis.
* This post was
edited 01/25/10 11:46pm by rrnelsonjr *
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carringb
Corvallis, OR
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Quote:15278. (a) A driver is required to obtain an endorsement issued by the department to operate any commercial motor vehicle that is any of the following:
(1) A double trailer.
Quote:260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
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rrnelsonjr
CA
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carringb wrote:Quote:15278. (a) A driver is required to obtain an endorsement issued by the department to operate any commercial motor vehicle that is any of the following:
(1) A double trailer.
Quote:260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
410 A "motor truck" or "motortruck" is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
471 A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. "Pickup truck" does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a "utility body."
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~DJ~
Boise, Idaho
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Thanks for all your hard work rrnelsonjr!!!
I knew California allowed double towing and was surprised. Had always heard that the first trailer had to be a 5'er. Another myth busted!!!! 
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rrnelsonjr
CA
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~DJ~ wrote:Thanks for all your hard work rrnelsonjr!!!
I knew California allowed double towing and was surprised. Had always heard that the first trailer had to be a 5'er. Another myth busted!!!!
It's been raining a lot where I am so I don't have a life at the moment and I'm spending way too much time on the computer. It very well could be the first trailer has to be a fifth wheel but I have never been able to find it anywhere in the California vehicle code so, again, if anyone knows where it is in the vehicle code please send it to me.
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coolbreeze01
Redding, Ca
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Thank you rrnelsonjr, I stand corrected 
I did a "double towing" search in the Toy Hauler forum. Different thoughts there.
* This post was
edited 01/26/10 07:50am by coolbreeze01 *
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