BenK
SF BayArea
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Joined: 04/18/2002
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Now am wondering about the gasser direct injection...am assuming that their
PSI's are in that range too, right?
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hoopers
Loveland, CO
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Joined: 10/26/2002
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BenK wrote:NewsW wrote:hoopers wrote:
In the end, having the manufacturer warranty the failure is probably the most important, bottom line issue here. Ford, for whatever reason, seems to work hard at not covering obvious warranty issues. From what I can tell, that is what irks people the most....
Completely agree.
I can understand that Ford doesn't want to warrant cases where someone had water in fuel and ignored the warning light, or put DEF in the diesel, or gasoline in the tank.
But when there is no obvious evidence of owner caused / bad fuel, they (Ford and Bosch) have to own up to the possibility that their component have failed.
I start to look for other reasons why...other than just being penny
wise and pound foolish cheap
...
I'm no a diesel guy, but a life long gear head, boy racer.My opinion
is that there is an exec and/or staff responsible for this market
sector out to lunch. As long as that person/group makes their numbers,
the typical bean counter upper management won't really care till it's
almost or really too late to fix it... IMHO
I think you hit the nail on the head here...Ford got away with a huge warranty cost on the 6.0, by simply stating there was no problem. Now they are simply repeating their 6.0 strategy: deny there is a problem. Probably the same people with the same strategy.
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NewsW
US
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Joined: 02/06/2012
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BenK wrote:Now am wondering about the gasser direct injection...am assuming that their
PSI's are in that range too, right?
Not even close.
http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2011-01-1225.pdf
10 MPa range.
Roughly, 1,500 psi.
Posts are for entertainment purposes and may not be constituted as scientific, technical, engineering, or practical advice. Information is believed to be true but its accuracy and completeness cannot be guaranteed / or deemed fit for any purpose.
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NewsW
US
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Joined: 02/06/2012
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hoopers wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head here...Ford got away with a huge warranty cost on the 6.0, by simply stating there was no problem. Now they are simply repeating their 6.0 strategy: deny there is a problem. Probably the same people with the same strategy.
Don't think Ford ever said there was no problem with the 6.0.
They are not necessarily denying that there is a problem with the 6.7 either --- they may be as much in the fog as we are... and Bosch.
Bosch is the one with the proper knowhow to figure it out.
In all fairness to Ford, they may be just mistaken about the possibility of HPFP failure causes.
* This post was
edited 02/09/12 03:51pm by NewsW *
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NewsW
US
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Joined: 02/06/2012
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Just received confirmation from an expert in the field that Bosch may have overlooked something in the design and testing of the Bosch CP 4.x pump.
The pump is believed to use a Diamond Like Carbon Coating to lower friction and to withstand the intense pressure / temperature / wear.
While DLC coatings are normally believed to be inert and highly stable in automobile applications, research done in late 2007s suggest that the coating is not as inert / stable as originally believed.
This research was not public until late 2008, well after the design of the CP 4 pump was "frozen" and testing / validation done.
In fact, DLC coatings (tested in the above research) is now known to be reactive with common petroleum based lubricating oil additives.
It is highly likely that chemically similar compounds are found in diesel fuel normally sold in the USA.
Diesel fuel in the USA require considerably more refinery processing and use of additives to bring it "to spec" compared to European Spec Diesel fuel.
It is not just lubricity --- but chemical reactivity with DLC that is the prime suspect now in Bosch CP 4.x pump failures.
Bosch need to roll up their sleeves and get to work with some good science.
At present, we have a hypothesis.... not proven facts.
Side Note:
It is known that certain people will try to "home brew" fixes to the CP4 pump problem by adding lubricity additives (commercially sold or home made) to their diesel fuel. At least a few have publicly said they are doing so.
If this reseach is right... addition of lubricating oil (loaded with EXACTLY the stuff tested) in a vain attempt to improve "lubricity" of North American diesel will ACCELERATE, not RETARD the failure of the DLC coating (if it is similar to the one tested).
The poor jokers who have no background in petroleum chemistry, tribology, DLCs, etc. trying to "home brew" a fix for what is a very high tech, difficult to solve issue....
* This post was
edited 02/10/12 11:05am by NewsW *
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kirbybear
Ft. Lauderdale Fl USA
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Joined: 12/07/2003
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I paid zero to repair ALL my 6.0 problems. Ford paid for every thing.
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Engineer9860
Eagle Scout dad
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Joined: 08/10/2003
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kirbybear wrote:I paid zero to repair ALL my 6.0 problems. Ford paid for every thing.
You didn't have to front the $100.00 deductible?
In Memoriam: Liberty Belle
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Flashman
Tucson, Aizona, USA
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Joined: 01/02/2005
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kirbybear wrote:I paid zero to repair ALL my 6.0 problems. Ford paid for every thing.
They pay for your down time and ruined vacations?
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ib516
Up here!
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Joined: 04/18/2003
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kirbybear wrote:I paid zero to repair ALL my 6.0 problems. Ford paid for every thing.
Or, you could just own another brand and not have problems.
2010 Cougar 322QBS 5er
2007 Dodge 3500 SRW Megacab, 4x4, 5.9L Cummins, 3.73, 48RE auto
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Collision Reconstructionist, CDR (automotive "black box") download technician/analyst
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NewsW
US
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Joined: 02/06/2012
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ib516 wrote:kirbybear wrote:I paid zero to repair ALL my 6.0 problems. Ford paid for every thing.
Or, you could just own another brand and not have problems.
If the problems are with the Bosch 4.x pump, expect problems in the GM starting with the 2011 model year in 9 months time.
Ditto for the Cummins 6.7 two years from when they move to the CP 4.x pump.
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