Ozlander
Rose Hill, Kansas
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chrisjpr wrote:j-d wrote:I'm sure this is a stretched chassis, correct? It shouldn't be, but the shop that worked on ours said "those long ones really wear the front end out." Ours is stretched from 158" to 218" plus probably another bunch of rear overhang.
What you can do, given Ford declines, is replace the balljoints yourself and include the Ingalls adjustable bushings. Then you can have a shop set the alignment any way you want. Install grease fittings in the new joints and lube them frequently.
Editorial remark: 1991 and earlier, E-Series used nearly indestructible King Pins in the front end. Also had front sway bars with end links. It took till about 2009 to go back to end links, but those lousy ball joints are still there. Very late E-Series may have gotten better joints. Perhaps others can comment.
If Ford won't come through I will be taking it to a different shop and having them replace the joints with Moog life time warranted greeseable ball joints.
Actually, I would just take it to a different shop and find out the true story.
Ozlander
06 Yukon XL
2001 Trail-Lite 7253
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chrisjpr
Owosso
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Joined: 09/25/2011
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Ozlander wrote:chrisjpr wrote:j-d wrote:I'm sure this is a stretched chassis, correct? It shouldn't be, but the shop that worked on ours said "those long ones really wear the front end out." Ours is stretched from 158" to 218" plus probably another bunch of rear overhang.
What you can do, given Ford declines, is replace the balljoints yourself and include the Ingalls adjustable bushings. Then you can have a shop set the alignment any way you want. Install grease fittings in the new joints and lube them frequently.
Editorial remark: 1991 and earlier, E-Series used nearly indestructible King Pins in the front end. Also had front sway bars with end links. It took till about 2009 to go back to end links, but those lousy ball joints are still there. Very late E-Series may have gotten better joints. Perhaps others can comment.
If Ford won't come through I will be taking it to a different shop and having them replace the joints with Moog life time warranted greeseable ball joints.
Actually, I would just take it to a different shop and find out the true story.
I definitely found out the true story. The technician took me under the bus while it was on the hoist and showed me the slop and play in each ball joint. The ball joints are for sure bad
* This post was
edited 02/06/12 06:52pm by chrisjpr *
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dlbapm
Escondido, CA, USA
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Joined: 01/17/2005
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Ford, and probably most other manufacturers, depend on their manufacturing jigs to get the frontend assembled so that it meets their very loose specs. When the E450 undergoes "final inspection" the alignment is checked to see if it meets specs (which are a joke, IMHO). If the frontend is out of spec they install adjustment cams, but only on the side that needs adjusting; not on both sides. My E450 left the factory with an adjustable cams on the left side, but none on the right side. My alignment shop replaced the "cheap" Ford adjustment and installed one on the right.
My alignment shop has also warned me that the ball joints are wearing. However, I have 99K miles on the chassis. Paln to have them replaced this spring. Appreciate the info provided here on the subject.
Doug
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Mocoondo
Chicago, IL
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chrisjpr wrote:The bus needs all new ball joints. The service advisor told me this is extremely common.
That's what I was going to tell you, but you beat me to the punch.
If you are getting inside tire wear on a Ford chassis, your ball joints are bad. You got unusually few miles out of your ball joints, but that could be a combination of how the bus was built, how it is loaded on the chassis, and how it is loaded when you are traveling. We usually get 100K miles out of our fleet units before the BJ's need replaced.
Ford BJ's are greased and permanently sealed. If you are having Ford parts installed, one of the ways you can prolong the life of the BJ's is to remove the permaseal "plug" and install a zerk fitting and grease them from time to time (every 6,000 mi). That is how we get ours up to 100K miles.
You really have to watch this situation close, since as you have seen, you can chop up a set of tires in a single trip once the ball joints go bad.
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chrisjpr
Owosso
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Mocoondo wrote:chrisjpr wrote:The bus needs all new ball joints. The service advisor told me this is extremely common.
That's what I was going to tell you, but you beat me to the punch.
If you are getting inside tire wear on a Ford chassis, your ball joints are bad. You got unusually few miles out of your ball joints, but that could be a combination of how the bus was built, how it is loaded on the chassis, and how it is loaded when you are traveling. We usually get 100K miles out of our fleet units before the BJ's need replaced.
Ford BJ's are greased and permanently sealed. If you are having Ford parts installed, one of the ways you can prolong the life of the BJ's is to remove the permaseal "plug" and install a zerk fitting and grease them from time to time (every 6,000 mi). That is how we get ours up to 100K miles.
You really have to watch this situation close, since as you have seen, you can chop up a set of tires in a single trip once the ball joints go bad.
This is good info. I didn't know the Ford replacement joints could be retrofitted with grease zerks. I will definitely request this if Ford steps up and decides to cover the repair.
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Mocoondo
Chicago, IL
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chrisjpr wrote:The bus needs all new ball joints. The service advisor told me this is extremely common.
You have to look on your specific ball joints. Many permaseal ball joints have a cap screw. You can remove that and install a regular zerk and then apply grease.
In fact, before you have the ball joints replaced, you would be wise to do this. I have seen ball joints that had play that went away once the ball joints were greased.
Any ball joint exhibiting more than 0.6mm play after greasing should be replaced.
In any case, you will nee to change out the tires since they are all chopped up.
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spacedoutbob
SF Bay Area
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If you are wearing out the Inside edge of the tires, it has excessive Negative Camber. The steering wheel should have been able to be adjusted through the tie rods. A good Front End shop should be able to fix the problems. Good luck on getting the problem repaired.
Bob in Calif.
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HEMIDAZE
Amelia, OH
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Many years ago a co-worker of mine took his new ford to the dealer complaining that it burned 1 quart of oil every 700 miles. They told him that was within the specifications of the engine.
2002 Jayco Greyhawk 31RB
2011 HHR (picture coming)
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tatest
Oklahoma Green Country
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Joined: 05/14/2005
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One issue you face with front end alignment on a bus that is less of a problem for motorhomes, is that the alignment needs to be checked with a normal load, total weight and distribution.
For a C motorhome, most of the load is the house, and load (and load distribution) does not usually change greatly as you put your stuff in it. One of the biggest variables is the fresh water load, and we can take the RV to the shop with tanks filled the way we travel.
For a bus, half or more of the load will be the passengers, but your front end shop has to align the empty bus, estimating how the camber will change under load (more negative from passengers ahead of the axle, less negative as they load into the back).
A dealer could very well find camber on an empty bus to be within the (fairly loose) alignment specs, but it can go off spec when you load passengers. The alignment guy is supposed to be smart about this, but that is more likely at a specialty shop than at a dealer, unless the tech who does alignments is a specialist at that one job.
I take my RV to the a truck alignment shop, not the dealer. If I left it at my Ford dealer for an alignment, they would probably farm the job out to the shop I would take it to.
Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B
2001 Ranger Edge
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chrisjpr
Owosso
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I was contacted today by Ford. They are willing to pay for 50% of the repair costs. I guess it is better than nothing. I will have them install lifetime greasable Moog ball joints. I have to say though that I am not at all happy with Ford.
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