senf
Nanaimo,BC,Canada
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I followed Booster and Photog through their thread regarding the lifting of their Roadtreks last year. So when I got back from our summer trip in October 2011, I got quotes to supply and install various items and quotes to install and order the parts myself. Everything went well except the front springs.
I talked to Randy Morris of Otto-Max here in BC and he said that he had feedback from RT owners that the TTC1617 5000 LB springs were too harsh off the highway. So he suggested that I put in TTC1618, which were 4400 LB. The springs arrived and all the ordered gear (rotors, brake pads, bilstein shocks and springs) were taken to Budget Brake and Muffler for installation. The TTC1618 are slightly longer than the OEM springs but have more coils. Only one was installed, after a great deal of trouble, because it bowed and the shop owner said he would not be responsible for putting the vehicle on the road like that.
The shop owner was really impressed with the present ride (OEM springs reinstalled), when we went out to test the brakes, but that was on the highway. The TTC1618 springs have been returned to Otto-Max and I am waiting to get a refund. What I would like to know from those of you who installed the TTC1617 5000 LB springs, are they harsh off the highway? What about over speed bumps in shopping malls etc?
"Drive with Care, Life has no Spare!"
2008 Roadtrek C190V 6.0L Hella Fog, Nighthawk Driving, Halogen Reverse Lights, Fiamma Air Horn, Firestone Air Bags, TPMS, Custom Bed & Mattress, Custom O/Head Tray.
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booster
Minnesota
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Joined: 10/14/2007
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On ours, we found them to be better than the originals for ride. I have heard others say they were harsh, but that was not the case with ours. On small bumps, we found them to be about the same, and on big bumps, much smoother because the suspension didn't bottom out on the bump stops. When we put on the Bilsteins, it smoothed out the small bumps, and stiffened up the big ones. When all was said and done, we are smoother on small bumps by a bit, with also an improvement in comfort on the rest of the bumps, except very large ones, which the Bilsteins stiffen up for added control. We have been very happy with the ride, and I think we have had ours the longest time (not longest miles) of those that have done them. We haven't tried it yet, but the higher rate springs in the front, and the swaybar in the back, should increase the front traction enough to allow us to drop our front tire pressure a bit, which will give an even smoother ride. We run 65psi now, and will probably try 60 and see how handles.
Our springs were pretty much identical in length as the stock ones, but with more coils and much bigger diameter wire.
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PeteCo
Virginia
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Joined: 04/04/2006
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senf wrote: The TTC1618 are slightly longer than the OEM springs but have more coils. Only one was installed, after a great deal of trouble, because it bowed and the shop owner said he would not be responsible for putting the vehicle on the road like that.
What I would like to know from those of you who installed the TTC1617 5000 LB springs, are they harsh off the highway? What about over speed bumps in shopping malls etc?
I have the TTC1617 springs, along with Firestone rear airbags on a 2006 RT210P. I did the mod mainly to raise the vehicle to get adequate ground clearance.
I did just notice that the springs do bow somewhat because of the increased angle downward from horizontal of the control arm. That is probably what the installer saw. We will have to see if it is an issue long term, but I think it will be OK as these springs are very beefy.
I think the ride is a little harsher than before, but some of this may come from the new Bilstein shocks. When I am on rough roads I drive very conservatively. I also take speed bumps very slow. Overall I am happy with the ride and handling.
It may be that a spring in between the 1617 and 1618 would be better, especially for the RT190 which is lighter than the RT210 by several hundred pounds. The spring will still bow somewhat. It would be good to hear from a suspension pro on this issue.
Gspeed
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booster
Minnesota
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Joined: 10/14/2007
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From what I have seen, a lot of front coil springs bow out a little. The way the A arms rotate on their pivots keep them from staying parallel. Was he looking at them in the unloaded, fully extended position? If so, that could be considerably less aligned than in the compressed condition, especially if the shock was still disconnected. There are quite a few of the 1617s out there without problem, as far as I know. but I haven't heard of any 1618's.
If they wanted to do a softer spring, that still gave the full 2" lift, I think it would have to be considerable longer than a stock spring. This would make it so it would have to be installed with a spring compressor, if there was enough room for the added coils of the taller spring. That might be an interesting question to ask Otto-max, as then you could keep the same spring rate as stock, but still get the lift.
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senf
Nanaimo,BC,Canada
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Thanks Booster & PeteCo for your replies.
I gathered from the installer that the TTC 1618 spring bowed enough to rub against the shock when the shock was installed. Apparently the shop owner and and Randy Morris had a lengthy conversation. However, I still haven't given up on the idea of a front end spring, but I am waiting to get reimbursed before I decide to do anything about it, even though it may mean going back to Otto-Max for the TTC 1617.
According to the shop owner, any suggestion of the spring and shock contacting each other during operation is a recipe for disaster.
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booster
Minnesota
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Joined: 10/14/2007
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Wow, Senf, hitting the shock would be a lot of bowing. What did Otto-max say about it. They seem to be straight up folks, and certainly should have the most useful experience in things like this.
Our van is sitting on the stands right now, so it was a good time to get some pics.
Here is what the spring looks like with it hanging free (full extension, stopped by the shock).
And here is what it looks like with close to normal weight on it.
Unloaded there is more bow than loaded, by quite a bit, and the further you compress the suspension with bumps or load, the bow will get less, as the control arm gets closer to parallel to the upper spring mount.
Too bad your guy didn't take a pic or two, I am sure Otto-max would be very interested to see what happens.
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